Weird cycling issue... thoughts?

[DG23]

The shoulder won’t move between the FL size and the neck die much at all, especially if properly annealed.

Contrary to popular belief, the neck die doesn’t set tension like you may think, but rather the expander being pulled back through it. Which is why it’s best to not use expanders and to follow up with a expander mandrel second time through the press.


This is the best method I’ve used after loading for nearing 20 years and running my ammo in at least 20 rifles.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree.

But I do like my expanders...

Best thing I ever did for my RCBS sizing die was adding the Lyman carbide expander button assembly. More or less a floating button that can be adjusted for where you want it to be on the decapping rod. (where it enters / exits the case in relation to where the press handle is) Carbide is already slick but with a tiny bit of Imperial wax every so often it is ungodly slick. Almost makes pulling the shoulder forward as you withdraw the expander from the case unpossible. Not in the same league as the traditional expander / decap rod assemblies on Hornady or RCBS dies.

If you tried it I bet you would like it.



Hornady on left, standard RCBS in middle, and RCBS with Lyman conversion kit on right.

Not sure if you can tell from the picture but the Hornady has the longest expander 'surface' (not sure if that is the proper word?) of the three by a good bit. The RCBS the smallest and the Lyman just a tiny bit bigger than the RCBS. The more expander you have pulling its way back out of the neck the more likely you are to pull the shoulder... Aside of that length the difference between the steel expanders and the carbide is noticeable as well. The Lyman button is by far the smoothest of them all even after wasting time 'polishing' the Hornady and RCBS stuff.

[mRad]

Agree.

But I do like my expanders...

Best thing I ever did for my RCBS sizing die was adding the Lyman carbide expander button assembly. More or less a floating button that can be adjusted for where you want it to be on the decapping rod. (where it enters / exits the case in relation to where the press handle is) Carbide is already slick but with a tiny bit of Imperial wax every so often it is ungodly slick. Almost makes pulling the shoulder forward as you withdraw the expander from the case unpossible. Not in the same league as the traditional expander / decap rod assemblies on Hornady or RCBS dies.

If you tried it I bet you would like it.



Hornady on left, standard RCBS in middle, and RCBS with Lyman conversion kit on right.

Not sure if you can tell from the picture but the Hornady has the longest expander 'surface' (not sure if that is the proper word?) of the three by a good bit. The RCBS the smallest and the Lyman just a tiny bit bigger than the RCBS. The more expander you have pulling its way back out of the neck the more likely you are to pull the shoulder... Aside of that length the difference between the steel expanders and the carbide is noticeable as well. The Lyman button is by far the smoothest of them all even after wasting time 'polishing' the Hornady and RCBS stuff.

I’m sure id like or better than normal expander balls but I’ve found that I like the mandrel die the best. Typically, I’ve been running. Decapping, body or FL with the decapping assembly removed, then tumble in wet tumbler. Then next time through, mandrel die to make sure necks are round and expanded the same. I’ve had a few times necks get boogered up in the stainless wet tumbler. After the mandrel, powder, Forster Br seater and then crimp die if for a .223 AR.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MWAG19919]

The gauge is NOT your chamber.

Have you checked any to see if any that you think you 'fixed' actually fit your chamber?

Resizing your cases to fit a generic case gauge is where your problems started and why they will likely continue.

You 'could' buy one of these: https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/
and know for certain what is going on with the headspace in YOUR particular barrel. Could also be used to tell you what the gauge you have is set up at using a piece of fired brass and measuring what it reads as you size it down to 'fit' between the steps.

I would bet money that as you seated those rounds deeper you pushed your shoulder back which is why the rounds seem to 'fit' now. Unless you have a seriously oddball chamber there is no darn way that the ogive of a 62 grain Hornady bullet was hitting anything inside your actual chamber. On most 5.56 chambers that bullet would fall out of the case before coming close to hitting any sort of lands. You sure as hell are not coming close to the lands if the bullets still fit in a regular magazine.

What they do or how they fit in the gauge you have means nothing. The chamber in your barrel is what matters...

You would be better served going forward if you tossed your case gauge in the trash and learned how to measure your actual chambers (with the Hornady tool I linked you to above) and set your dies up according to those measurements. Your case gauge not jiving with the actual chamber in your barrel is why you are where you are now and having problems.

My loads are for 5 different ARs, so the gauge is merely a guide until I can confirm with live fire. As I said in my final sentence I plan to test these out at the range, but I'm not sure when my next range trip will be. In the meantime I'm not going to chamber every round that comes off the press in 5 different rifles/pistols, so the case gauge will suffice. I understand that the chamber in one or more of those firearms may differ, but I'll cross that bridge if/when I get there.

I am also quite shocked that seating the bullet 0.011" deeper allowed the rounds to seat fully into the gauge. I would not have thought a 62 gr FMJ would be picky at 2.250" but that appears to be the case. I don't intend to take your money, but I doubt that seating the bullet deeper bumped the shoulders back, as the "corrected" rounds gauged the same as my (small) sample of pulled cases from the same lot. If what you were saying were true, I would expect the shoulders on the pulled cases to be pulled out (the use of the neck turning mandrel gives me great neck tension, and as a result it took a considerable effort to pull these bullets even with a collet puller mounted in the press).

[mRad]

Delete

[mRad]

Agree.

But I do like my expanders...

Best thing I ever did for my RCBS sizing die was adding the Lyman carbide expander button assembly. More or less a floating button that can be adjusted for where you want it to be on the decapping rod. (where it enters / exits the case in relation to where the press handle is) Carbide is already slick but with a tiny bit of Imperial wax every so often it is ungodly slick. Almost makes pulling the shoulder forward as you withdraw the expander from the case unpossible. Not in the same league as the traditional expander / decap rod assemblies on Hornady or RCBS dies.

If you tried it I bet you would like it.



Hornady on left, standard RCBS in middle, and RCBS with Lyman conversion kit on right.

Not sure if you can tell from the picture but the Hornady has the longest expander 'surface' (not sure if that is the proper word?) of the three by a good bit. The RCBS the smallest and the Lyman just a tiny bit bigger than the RCBS. The more expander you have pulling its way back out of the neck the more likely you are to pull the shoulder... Aside of that length the difference between the steel expanders and the carbide is noticeable as well. The Lyman button is by far the smoothest of them all even after wasting time 'polishing' the Hornady and RCBS stuff.

Also thought I’d add the Redding S-Type also use this button system with a floating carbide button. I use these in some of my varmint rounds I shoot in high volumes. They do work much better than the traditional or tapered expanders.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DG23]

I am also quite shocked that seating the bullet 0.011" deeper allowed the rounds to seat fully into the gauge. I would not have thought a 62 gr FMJ would be picky at 2.250" but that appears to be the case.

You can do a simple experiment -

Load one of those 62 grain Hornady bullets in an empty (no powder or primer) but properly resized case to where the bullet is only seated deep enough to not fall out of the case. Mark the bullet really good with some dykem or a sharpie, hand load it (because it will not fit in any magazine at that length) and let the bolt slam it home and chamber it in your rifle.

You should see tell tale marks on the bullet if it contacts your lands.

Put the damn case gauge away...

[DG23]

Also thought I’d add the Redding S-Type also use this button system with a floating carbide button. I use these in some of my varmint rounds I shoot in high volumes. They do work much better than the traditional or tapered expanders.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Curious if those decapping pins there are the tiny kind like on the Lyman kit I mentioned or more like the 'normal' size. Can see what I mean looking at the picture I posted.

The Lyman pins are freaking tiny. Does not matter to me because I use a universal decapper (with a proper 'manly man' dia pin / shaft) first and then wet tumble before resizing with the RCBS / Lyman die and the Lyman pin never really does anything as the primer is already long gone but... Never tried but I can't imagine a single Lyman tiny pin getting very far if actually decapping staked / crimped in mil primers.

Curious how that Redding does with the decapping pins and how they hold up for you.

[mRad]

I’ll be honest I don’t really use them much anymore. I typically use the universal in station one. When I did use them, I broke more RCBS than Redding, but I kept a good stock of both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk