Is .45 Obsolete (Mas Ayoob)?

[wil]

Makes sense to me. I haven't had any trouble with it from my 2.0 M&P.

I agree there are pro's and con's to an under 1100 fps lead vs jacketed pistol bullet. (Terminally and otherwise)

low speed makes for no leading in the bore.

Big & heavy at relatively low speed, hits hard. A lot of people were killed in the civil war by the very same type of bullet.
Also those tended to cause a lot of amputations owing to the damage they did.

Also reliability, no headaches with tweaking the gun to work with a hollowpoint. Cast lead semi-flat nose is very close in overall profile to std jacketed ball. Reliability comes first.

I'd actually considered getting a winchester trapper & .357 mag revolver for the same reason. Cast my own and have something chambered in the same round, less logistics in a worst-case scenario.

158 gr bullet in those you can download to just above the old 158 gr treasury dept load in .38.

After a while it made no sense, if cast lead bullets are relatively low cost.......stock up. Why make the assumption I'll be caught without if I stock up to begin with.

so I've stuck with those and they work for whatever my needs might be.

[HKGuns]

lead, non jacket.

Way back when I figured worst-case no ammo situation owing to government decree, economic collapse, what-have-you.
I could cast my own out of wheel weights & plumbers solder if that's what I had to do.

That & the cast lead worked fine as well as being lower cost to purchase. I also figured it being basically the same as jacketed ball ammo minus the jacket, what's the difference in it's killing ability? Semi-flat nose probably would not just punch through, it'd tend to smash it's way through as did the minie bullet.

Which is exactly why my .44 Mag Bear loads are 240 grain hard cast lead flat nose sitting on a full house load of 2400.

Shoot a cylinder of those and you’ll be close to done for the day.

Wouldn’t want to be hit by one for all the tea in China.

[Ron3]

Sounds to me like a good .380 load would be a 95-100 gr cast RN-FP. If the pistol will feed it.

[SRT]

God's caliber will still be relevant after everyone who opined here is long gone.

[SteyrAUG]

Been a Ayoob devotee from the late 70s, that said I think he's just trying to INVENT a new topic so he doesn't have to do the "9mm vs. .45....which is really superior?" article for the millionth time in his life.

The question of course is absurd, the answer obvious. Sure modern defensive ammo has made the old debate sorta meaningless...but that doesn't translate into the .45 being obsolete or anything else.

This is maybe the saddest thing I've seen Ayoob do in print.

[Alaskapopo]

As a .45 guy, I can understand why he's carrying more 9mm--arthritis can put a cramp on a lot of things. Speaking for myself, I handle .45 recoil better than 9mm on the same platform--subjectively speaking from my own perception, usually a 9mm "snaps" dumping all its recoil energy at once while a .45 is more like a slow steady "push" distributing its energy over a longer time span.

Sidearms are like underwear, one size most assuredly DOES NOT fit all!

I find that strange the part about feeling a 9mm has more recoil on the same platform. I have 9mm and 45's and 40s on similar platforms 2011's and 1911's the 9mm in a 1911/ 2011 is very soft almost like shooting a 22. You can't defy physics.

[markm]

Gun rag writers are worse than firearms instructors when it comes to trying to reinvent the wheel. Damn! I just had a flashback to Costa's silly rifle holding nonsense.

[WillBrink]

Been a Ayoob devotee from the late 70s, that said I think he's just trying to INVENT a new topic so he doesn't have to do the "9mm vs. .45....which is really superior?" article for the millionth time in his life.

The question of course is absurd, the answer obvious. Sure modern defensive ammo has made the old debate sorta meaningless...but that doesn't translate into the .45 being obsolete or anything else.

This is maybe the saddest thing I've seen Ayoob do in print.

As someone who can speak from authority on that one, you have really two choices as a writer in a genre, write when you have something to say, that's unique, original, useful, etc, or write as much as possible for volume often saying the same chit over and over and or fluff stuff to get something out.

I chose the former and it's always been my downfall, and those who choose the latter, including some of the big name authors, are usually more successful.

Quantity usually trumps quality in the writing biz regardless of genre, and you're only as good as your latest article/book to mags, readers, publishers, etc.

[SteyrAUG]

Gun rag writers are worse than firearms instructors when it comes to trying to reinvent the wheel. Damn! I just had a flashback to Costa's silly rifle holding nonsense.

Man, remember when everyone HAD to hold their rifle like that? Remember when everyone with a handgun had to hard horse stance when shooting Iso? Every 5 years some clown comes up with a new way to look silly with firearms.

One of the reasons I always got a kick out of Ben Stoeger. Wearing shorts and flip flops he finally outshot Hackathorn for a record simply by using practiced and efficient movement without a bunch of stylistic flair.

Sometimes watching people shoot mechanically reminds me of people in the disco days doing "the robot." Whenever somebody does the press out - pull in thing with a handgun in an overly exaggerated way...I want to start playing Midnight Star.

I've tried to explain to some shooters that you learn a method or a technique in order to one day "unlearn it" and have it become a completely natural movement...maybe 8% of them can even relate to that concept.

But yeah, being a gun writer and trying to remain relevant must be awful. Your choices are repetitive redundancy or cutting edge idiocy. Even guys who revolutionized everything, like Cooper, eventually came up with stupid shit like scout rifles with forward mounted optics that were almost useless in a wide variety of applications. The integral bipod / forearm was one of the biggest piece of crap ideas I had ever seen.

[SteyrAUG]

As someone who can speak from authority on that one, you have really two choices as a writer in a genre, write when you have something to say, that's unique, original, useful, etc, or write as much as possible for volume often saying the same chit over and over and or fluff stuff to get something out.

I chose the former and it's always been my downfall, and those who choose the latter, including some of the big name authors, are usually more successful.

Quantity usually trumps quality in the writing biz regardless of genre, and you're only as good as your latest article/book to mags, readers, publishers, etc.

LOL. I have got to read the entire thread before I post. I basically just posted everything you just said.

Me personally, I think "less is more." I think Kyle Lamb has written two books, but they are pretty much "everything you need to know about this" kind of books. We don't need Green Eyes, Black Rifles Part VIII.

Everyone still knows who Kyle Lamb is and respects his knowledge base. Granted he isn't a writer as his main "day job" gig so he can get away with it. Maybe you just have to cover lots of ground like Vickers, of course you have to have an incredibly vast understanding of your subject to do what Vickers did.

Interesting thing about Ayoob, he used to write articles for Black Belt in the mid to late 70s, so really he could have stayed in his lane(s) and been just fine. He can do more damage with a single bad article than he can with 12 months of inactivity. This nonsense is all most people under 30 will ever know about him for the next 10 years.

New shooters aren't gonna dig up archives of The Ayoob Files and think "oh he used to know what the hell he's talking about."