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Thread: Kit for an ICU Doc

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    To risk sounding callous and uncaring, I will not render aid to strangers or get involved in any trauma that does not involve family. Harsh? Cruel? Evil sub human monster? Maybe, perhaps but not really. An ER nurse I know rendered aid to a gentleman who collapsed at a mall some time ago and was subsequently sued for her efforts. I'll call 911 for someone or to report an incident but will not get personally involved for the most part.
    This is what a lot of my colleagues feel like. Iím on the fence. Itís a legit concern.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky5019 View Post
    This is what a lot of my colleagues feel like. I’m on the fence. It’s a legit concern.
    I do tend to have some remorse for feeling this way, being that I am physician (semi retired), but still, the likely legal and financial consequences of interceding in such circumstances mitigate those feelings.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanner View Post
    To risk sounding callous and uncaring, I will not render aid to strangers or get involved in any trauma that does not involve family.
    That's my philosophy as well. There's no Duty to Act in my state once I'm off the clock, and I started realizing a while ago that most people aren't worth losing my livelihood for.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTF425 View Post
    That's my philosophy as well. There's no Duty to Act in my state once I'm off the clock, and I started realizing a while ago that most people aren't worth losing my livelihood for.
    No I totally get it. Me too. It shouldnít (and didnít used to) be this way. I hate that as well but signs of the times.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ST911 View Post
    You might be surprised at the disconnect some have with the pre-hospital environment, current standards of care in the field, TCCC/TECC concepts, scene safety and patient interaction, how to use an IFAK, etc. It can be profound.
    .
    Not unlike EMT's who have nothing with them once works ends, and LEO's who don't carry off duty, there's something happening under the hood psychologically speaking happening there. It's a level of denial and disconnect and mindset I can't fathom.

    The world does not end when the shift does. I have been with off duty LEO's where i was the only one armed, the only one with a band aid in my car, etc.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Not unlike EMT's who have nothing with them once works ends, and LEO's who don't carry off duty, there's something happening under the hood psychologically speaking happening there. It's a level of denial and disconnect and mindset I can't fathom.

    The world does not end when the shift does. I have been with off duty LEO's where i was the only one armed, the only one with a band aid in my car, etc.
    This. Folks need to know ahead of time what they're capable of doing (hardware and software wise), as well as what they're willing to do. Part of this plan becomes an ethical/moral decision that should be made in advance. I can't see myself only calling 911 when the dude next to me is bleeding out from a round through the thigh at a public range, knowing I have a TQ in my bag. Of course response will be situation dependant.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky5019 View Post
    I hate that as well but signs of the times.
    I actually appreciate you, chuckman, and Tanner chiming in on this topic. I think it's a nuanced conversation that highlights some of the interesting consequences of working in medicine.

    I will do everything within my scope of practice and training to provide the best patient care possible...at work. I'm constantly training in our sim labs and subscribe to a handful of journals to keep myself up to date. But knowing how litigious that our society is these days, I (regretfully) know that I could get lit up with a civil suit if I make myself part of someone else's problem when I am not required to do so. I don't even wear my company swag anymore when I'm in public because it could force me into the awkward position of being confronted by bystanders with the expectation that I'll do something.

    I wish it weren't that way, but it is.
    Last edited by GTF425; 06-21-21 at 17:45.

  8. #28
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    In areas with decent Good Samaritan laws, Iíd do as much as a reasonable layperson would be expected to do. Which is very little, and never anything invasive. But I rarely stop. I usually keep driving, unless its in a district that I can be put on the clock by calling central. Iíll stop for a military member, also, particularly on a base. Not because of money, but for legal protection. We have lots of first responders here a radio or phone call away.

    I donít usually carry anything that looks like a ďfirst in bagĒ on my time off. Like most people in emergency or critical care, Iíd rather stub my toe on a kettlebell than see patients off the clock.

    Ask some medics how much they enjoy random doctors and nurses on their scenes. Especially doctors and nurses wearing dark scrubs on a highway at twilight, with no understanding of danger.

    Get a highlighter jacket, for reasons beyond Samaritan stuff. And some eyepro.

  9. #29
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    The FAK in my vans is an Adventure Medical Kit, nice blue-and-yellow bag. It's for my family, but also it does not scream "tactical" should I whip it out elsewhere.

    I try to never be an "always" or "never" kinda guy. Like everyone else, I am really, really leery of rendering aid for the thought of a lawsuit (seen it happen). But if I see someone laying in the road, or shot at the range, what will I really do? I really hope I don't find myself in a position to find out. Likely, I would do what I could without whipping out tools of the trade: call for help, open the airway, keep them warm, wait, etc. But who knows.

    To GTF425's point, I have nothing on my vehicles or clothing that would suggest what I do. I am literally the gray man.

    To 1168's point, I hate seeing patients off the clock, and it happens..."hey, you were my nurse/medic/diaper changer when I was in XXXXX...."

  10. #30
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    As an ER doc and former EMT ... I get it, and kind of side with your wife.

    IT guys, you don't cruise around town with a few extra pentiums stashed in your truck, do you?

    Sometimes work is work, and work isn't home.

    And let's be honest, ICU docs are, for the most part, NOT trained in first aid. I'm guessing she's IM residency, ICU fellowship trained? If so, even less likely to know first aid. Where do you hide money from an internist? Under the patient's bandages...

    Point is, she's probably exceptional with sick people, but that doesn't translate over to the field. There's no labs, medicines, nurses, radiography, etc, in the field. And finally, she's probably worried about liability. My FAK has dumbed down over the years due to this. Hell, I passed on a sweet airway kit for $60 a few weeks ago, mostly for that reason.

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