This -><- close to choosing 6.8 SPC vs 6.5 grendel

[toastx]

So as the title says I’m this -><- close to choosing 6.8 SPC vs 6.5 grendel. I took a couple of factors into deciding .300blk vs 7.62x39 as my first alternative caliber for AR-15 platform. I chose 7.62x32 for ammo availability and cost. Performance is similar but debatable. I couldn’t be any happier with the decision.

So with the next build I’m looking at alternatives for more punch vs 5.56mm. Research leads to 6.5mm Grendel vs 6.8mm SPC. For this I think I’m going to choose 6.8mm SPC and keep the barrel at 16”. For similar reasons as above, 6.8mm SPC seems to be viable. I believe the NGSW is also going to smiler size 6.8mm. With either its hard to go wrong. Your thoughts on one or the other?

[Steve_in_Allentown]

Define the mission.

If the mission is long range paper punching, go with the Grendel.

If the mission is killing things at three times the effective range of the 5.56 or the 7.62x39, go with the 6.8.

[Dutch110]

Is ammo cost factoring into the equation at all? Do you reload? Is this going to be a duty gun or something you just take to the range every few months and burn through a hundred rounds? Like Steve said, what is the intended use?

[Red*Lion]

Grendel as it is a superior round. Ammo is not always the easiest to get though.

[Red*Lion]

MAIN DIFFERENCE: 6.5 GRENDEL VS 6.8 SPC
While most hunting ranges require similar kinetic energy and trajectory, the 6.5 Grendel outperforms 6.8 SPC with its aerodynamic capacity that allows it to be resistant to wind drift at ranges past 200 to 300 yards. The 6.5 Grendel also has a smaller bullet diameter, lesser bullet drop, better kinetic energy, and lesser free recoil compared to 6.8 SPC.

https://lundestudio.com/6-5-grendel-vs-6-8-spc/

6.5 Grendel
6.5mm GrendelPros – Larger bullet weight selection if you are a reloader and for factory loads, weight for weight 6.5mm bullets have a higher sectional density which means they hold together better on impact than the same weight 6.8 bullet, higher ballistic coefficients per bullet weight means better retained velocities and energy at all distances, ammo is available in the 6.5 Grendel that can be had for less than $5.00 a box of 20 making it much cheaper to shoot than the 6.8 and even most 5.56 NATO for target shooting days, has been adopted by the Serbian military as their main caliber for armed forces, and is in technical testing for US Special Forces.

Cons – Requires a different bolt and magazine than the 5.56 NATO, so higher cost to convert a rifle, currently not as many commercial factory ammunition choices as the 6.8 SPC.



6.8 SPC
6.8-spcPros – More commercial factory ammunition choices currently available.

Cons – Exterior ballistics inferior to the 6.5 Grendel in every aspect, requires different bolt and magazine than the 5.56 NATO, so higher cost to convert a rifle, no inexpensive target shooting ammo or bullets for reloading.

My conclusion, as an all-around cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel is the clear winner. It has better ballistics from 0-800 yards, has more available options for bullets, and can drive those bullets to the same speeds or better than the 6.8 SPC. The ONLY place I have seen the 6.8 best the 6.5 is when the barrel lengths get below 14 inches, but, that isn’t an option for those of us residing in the state of Kommiefornia.

https://www.askdefensive.com/6-8-spc-6-5-grendel/

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/6-...s-6-5-grendel/

[Disciple]

Before things got crazy the Wolf steel case available for 6.5 Grendel was comparatively inexpensive. Currently either 6.5 or 6.8 is going to be expensive. From a 16" barrel the Grendel can launch a 107gr TMK with the same BC at the same velocity as the 77gr TMK from 5.56. I am not sure 39% more terminal mass alone is worth the price, unusual parts, potential difficulty getting reliable magazines.

[Steve_in_Allentown]

My conclusion, as an all-around cartridge, the 6.5 Grendel is the clear winner.

There seems to be a difference of opinion in this matter. I suspect there are a ton of posts here debating the two cartridges and we will not settle the matter here. I say, to each his own. The two cartridges are for all practical purposes nearly identical in terms of exterior ballistics. I give the edge to the 6.8 because of it's better track record of reliable feeding and lack of catastrophic bolt failures. My 18" ARP barreled 6.8 easily does < 1 MOA using factory ammo.

https://www.ar15performance.com/home

The 6.8 SPC II, Best all around AR15 cartridge.

Defensive and Hunting the 2 largest sectors

The 6.8 SPC is the #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.

Using factory ammo the 6.8 is approximately 100fps faster than the Grendel using the same weight bullet and same length barrel. Out to 175 yards the 6.8 has more energy with 110 and 120gr loads. A 16" 6.8 loaded with factory Hornady 120gr SSTs has enough velocity to expand and energy to take deer and hogs at 400yds. The Grendel horde likes to say the 6.8 is a short range hunting round and the Grendel is long range . . . BS. Load a 130gr Berger Classic Hunter (BC .497), 130 Speer or Sierra BT in the 6.8 and it will push it to the same velocity as a 123gr 6.5 Grendel. The BCs are very close so the drop and drift will be very close way past ethical hunting distances and the 6.8 bullets actually expand as designed.

There are defensive bullets like the 90gr Gold Dot, and several FMJs. There are bonded hunting bullets like the 100 and 110 Accubond, premium solid copper bullets Barnes 85 TSX, 95TTSX, 110 TSX, Cavity Back 100, and 120 MKZ and Hornady 100 GMX.

The 6.8 mags feed better. The bolts and extractors are stronger and more durable than [those used for] Grendel based cartridges.

[pinzgauer]

One thing to keep in mind is that all the 6.8 SPC figures people like to point to are the so-called SPC-II non-sammi variants. And some of the information being referenced in this thread is from people with a very strong vested interest in selling non-sammi barrels for 6.8. It is very clear to me they are no longer objective sources.

Your common inexpensive SPC from Remington or similar doesn't perform anything like that. And using the hot stuff in a barrel with the sammi throat is a recipe for high pressure problems.

People mention Grendels and bolt life/failure. I've been shooting Grendel extensively since 2008, as has my brother and also some friends. No one I know has ever had a bolt issue. Nor magazine issues.

The bolts do receive more bolt thrust due to the larger bolt head diameter, so do have to be stronger. You could argue fairly there's less margin of error with a grendle bolt than with 5.56. Much less of a difference between Grendel and SPC though.

On the positive side it is very difficult to make an inaccurate grendel load when hand loading. There is a pretty good selection of bullets, all that I need.

Both my brother and I have hunted with Grendel, and my son is starting to. It's a deadly stopper on hogs and deer. And even bigger if you're willing to try though I wouldn't recommend it or 6.8 for longer ranges.

And the ability to get steel case Grendel ammo for plinking/training up until recently was a huge win. It's not super accurate but it's great for 25 and 50 m drills.

Grendel was also designed from the very beginning to be extremely reliable in full auto in both AR and AK platforms. And accordingly is sold for and in use by militaries in the AK platform. It was also designed such that it could be made on the barnul and similar Soviet ammo making machines.

And the last thing is that being able to use 7.62X39 brass was a real advantage when brass was hard to get during the 2008 shortages. One swipe through the loading die and you're in business.

There are enough intangibles to swing the needle to Grendel for me. I can shoot any of them, and if 6.8 had a substantial advantage I would change to that route. But especially if you're a hand loader, Grendel is a very easy pick. I know very few people that went Grendel and regretted it. But I do know some people that went 6.8, but then ended up moving to Grendel.

6mm ARC might be fun for paper at distance, but I really don't want to go that light on projectiles. And if I needed to, Grendel gets awful close. Bill Alexander did used to say that the ideal Grendel bullet weight was 110 to 115, which is closer to 6 mm ARC.

But the Hornady 123 amax and SST were pretty much designed specifically for Grendel, have the same exact BC and can be used interchangeably without changing loads. So I'm very happy with those two projectiles for hunting and target.

The Hornady 123A Max factory loading was extremely accurate. I've shot five shot half inch groups at 100 yd with that in my first grindle which was a 20-in stainless bull barrel. Like I said earlier, it's very hard to make an accurate Grendel's unless you miss-built the rifle.

So yeah, I'm a Grendel fan. There's a lot of intangibles that don't get discussed much that led me that direction. But it's not worth arguing over on an internet forum :-)

[gunnerblue]

One thing to keep in mind is that all the 6.8 SPC figures people like to point to are the so-called SPC-II non-sammi variants. And some of the information being referenced in this thread is from people with a very strong vested interest in selling non-sammi barrels for 6.8. It is very clear to me they are no longer objective sources.

Your common inexpensive SPC from Remington or similar doesn't perform anything like that. And using the hot stuff in a barrel with the sammi throat is a recipe for high pressure problems.

People mention Grendels and bolt life/failure. I've been shooting Grendel extensively since 2008, as has my brother and also some friends. No one I know has ever had a bolt issue. Nor magazine issues.

The bolts do receive more bolt thrust due to the larger bolt head diameter, so do have to be stronger. You could argue fairly there's less margin of error with a grendle bolt than with 5.56. Much less of a difference between Grendel and SPC though.

On the positive side it is very difficult to make an inaccurate grendel load when hand loading. There is a pretty good selection of bullets, all that I need.

Both my brother and I have hunted with Grendel, and my son is starting to. It's a deadly stopper on hogs and deer. And even bigger if you're willing to try though I wouldn't recommend it or 6.8 for longer ranges.

And the ability to get steel case Grendel ammo for plinking/training up until recently was a huge win. It's not super accurate but it's great for 25 and 50 m drills.

Grendel was also designed from the very beginning to be extremely reliable in full auto in both AR and AK platforms. And accordingly is sold for and in use by militaries in the AK platform. It was also designed such that it could be made on the barnul and similar Soviet ammo making machines.

And the last thing is that being able to use 7.62X39 brass was a real advantage when brass was hard to get during the 2008 shortages. One swipe through the loading die and you're in business.

There are enough intangibles to swing the needle to Grendel for me. I can shoot any of them, and if 6.8 had a substantial advantage I would change to that route. But especially if you're a hand loader, Grendel is a very easy pick. I know very few people that went Grendel and regretted it. But I do know some people that went 6.8, but then ended up moving to Grendel.

6mm ARC might be fun for paper at distance, but I really don't want to go that light on projectiles. And if I needed to, Grendel gets awful close. Bill Alexander did used to say that the ideal Grendel bullet weight was 110 to 115, which is closer to 6 mm ARC.

But the Hornady 123 amax and SST were pretty much designed specifically for Grendel, have the same exact BC and can be used interchangeably without changing loads. So I'm very happy with those two projectiles for hunting and target.

The Hornady 123A Max factory loading was extremely accurate. I've shot five shot half inch groups at 100 yd with that in my first grindle which was a 20-in stainless bull barrel. Like I said earlier, it's very hard to make an accurate Grendel's unless you miss-built the rifle.

So yeah, I'm a Grendel fan. There's a lot of intangibles that don't get discussed much that led me that direction. But it's not worth arguing over on an internet forum :-)

All good points, especially in regards to bolt life. All of bolt failures I've read about with no other mitigating factors seem to stem from using the .125" bolt face depth vs the original (Type II) .136."

Which military/militaries are using the Grendel?

[Steve_in_Allentown]

One thing to keep in mind is that all the 6.8 SPC figures people like to point to are the so-called SPC-II non-sammi variants. And some of the information being referenced in this thread is from people with a very strong vested interest in selling non-sammi barrels for 6.8. It is very clear to me they are no longer objective sources.

Your common inexpensive SPC from Remington or similar doesn't perform anything like that. And using the hot stuff in a barrel with the sammi throat is a recipe for high pressure problems.

You're right about the original SPC chambers not allowing for the use of high performance ammo. To the best of my knowledge it's been many years since anyone has produced barrels using the old SPC chamber specs.

Remington did a very poor job designing the chamber because they were in a rush to get what they saw as a gold mine into the hands of the military. They were so driven by their desire to pump up their bottom line that upper management forced short cuts to be taken which neutered the potential of the cartridge. The chamber designs were unfinished and the barrel rifling was the same as the 6.8's parent round the .270 Win. All of this resulted in lackluster ballistic performance which is why the military didn't adopt the cartridge.

Remington abandoned their development efforts and these days the only ammo manufactured using the anemic ballistics of the original SAAMI approved 6.8 specs is that produced by Remington.

All of the design mistakes made by Remington have been corrected. The result is the SPC II which is a huge leap forward from the original design. In fact, I'm unaware of any manufacturers building anything using the old SPC designed chamber today.

Reloading manuals still show loads based on the SPC SAAMI specs. Folks that are into the 6.8 use the max loads in the those reloading manuals as their starting loads and work up from there. I imagine that at some point SAMMI will approve standardized SPC II specs. Obviously, you can't be a moron when working up handloads so be sure to read the manual to see if it specifies the loads as being SPC or SPC II.