A10, almost scrapped, new updated versions coming

[chuckman]

I posted a thread on here not terribly long ago about all the aircraft that SOCOM was evaluating, the Super Tucano being one. A variant of the old venerable OV-10 Bronco another. Those aircraft are to fill a niche in the SOCOM community, I don't think they would replace the A10 for the mortals not in special operations.

[WillBrink]

In it's envisioned role of attacking the hordes of Soviet tanks pouring through the Fulda Gap in a WWIII scenario, it's hard to theorize how the aircraft would have done. Certainly would've knocked out a lot of tanks, but probably would have taken horrendous losses in return.

The Q I had was, would 30mm projectile used take out Soviet main battle tanks? Maybe they would have a that time? Today, not being an expert, I'm wondering if it would be effective at all for that use, at least as it applies to the 30mm cannon aspects. Troop carriers, etc, no doubt, but modern main battle tanks?

[chuckman]

In it's envisioned role of attacking the hordes of Soviet tanks pouring through the Fulda Gap in a WWIII scenario, it's hard to theorize how the aircraft would have done. Certainly would've knocked out a lot of tanks, but probably would have taken horrendous losses in return.

I read an article in the early 90s I think it was, looking at the conclusions of several war gaming studies, said that NATO aircraft would suffer 70% losses if the Soviet Union invaded Western Europe.

[WillBrink]

I read an article in the early 90s I think it was, looking at the conclusions of several war gaming studies, said that NATO aircraft would suffer 70% losses if the Soviet Union invaded Western Europe.

People that I talked to who were there at that time expected to do that job said they were all well aware of that and they were at best there to slow them down at best and where not expected to survive long. It did not seem like any of them had an illusions about the outcome of that early contact.

[ABNAK]

The Q I had was, would 30mm projectile used take out Soviet main battle tanks? Maybe they would have a that time? Today, not being an expert, I'm wondering if it would be effective at all for that use, at least as it applies to the 30mm cannon aspects. Troop carriers, etc, no doubt, but modern main battle tanks?

Yes, that's what the 30mm cannon it carries was designed for, i.e. their depleted uranium composition. I've seen films of the A-10 making gun runs on old tanks on some range somewhere; it ate them up. Gotta figure too that they would be making a downward impact, not allowing the tank to have the advantage of it's armor plates (designed to fight other tanks).

[Diamondback]

The Q I had was, would 30mm projectile used take out Soviet main battle tanks? Maybe they would have a that time? Today, not being an expert, I'm wondering if it would be effective at all for that use, at least as it applies to the 30mm cannon aspects. Troop carriers, etc, no doubt, but modern main battle tanks?

Remember, tanks usually have less armor on top to save weight--their primary design threat is other tanks not Death From Above, which they rely on regimental AAA/missile carriers or aircover to counter. IIRC, a large part of the Hog's design spec was directly intended to counter the ZSU-23-4... also, that "U-channel" tailgroup design was selected specifically to "box in" the exhaust and reduce IR signature from below.

[crusader377]

The Q I had was, would 30mm projectile used take out Soviet main battle tanks? Maybe they would have a that time? Today, not being an expert, I'm wondering if it would be effective at all for that use, at least as it applies to the 30mm cannon aspects. Troop carriers, etc, no doubt, but modern main battle tanks?

The 30mm DU round fired out of the A-10 would defeat most if not all Soviet MBTs (Late 1970s thru 1980s) of the period when hit from the sides, top, and rear. All lighter targets including BMPs and BTRs could be killed everywhere including frontally. Modern day, I would still put my money that the 30mm DU round would defeat most of likely targets on the battlefield with the exception of late model T-72, T-80s, and T-90s which have heavy armor plus reactive armor.

[Slater]

The standard "combat mix" for the A-10 (back in the day, anyway) was API (DU) and HEI in a 5-to-1 ratio. Not sure that API is even an inventory item any more due to it's toxicity and political implications. Heck, at one time there was even an HEI/TP mix (for whatever reason).

[chadbag]

I read an article in the early 90s I think it was, looking at the conclusions of several war gaming studies, said that NATO aircraft would suffer 70% losses if the Soviet Union invaded Western Europe.

Not just the aircrew. The tankers were well aware that they wouldn't be coming home in the event either. In the early 80s I spoke to a guy who was a long term tanker (at that point he was in the NG but had done a good stint of RA as a tanker as well) and he said they figured they would last something like 3 rounds -- meaning they would get to fire about 3 main gun rounds before they were hit and killed.

[Averageman]

I read an article in the early 90s I think it was, looking at the conclusions of several war gaming studies, said that NATO aircraft would suffer 70% losses if the Soviet Union invaded Western Europe.

People that I talked to who were there at that time expected to do that job said they were all well aware of that and they were at best there to slow them down at best and where not expected to survive long. It did not seem like any of them had an illusions about the outcome of that early contact.

I spent the entire 80's in Germany, about 22 miles from the border. We weren't a "Border Cav" unit, but we took our turns up at Camp Harris.
I was in a unique position because I Gunned the S-3's Tank. We all had clearances and special duties.
When they told me I would command the tank that covered our brigades bridge across the river I was a little surprised at 23 that's a heavy responsibility.
When they told me the bridge was marked and the math had been done and the explosives were on site, well, I took it a lot more serious.