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Thread: Best Fighter Aircraft ever built. Top 5

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand58742 View Post
    But then again, the F-14 never evolved (or was never evolved) like the rest of the Teen series. You think about where the -15, -16 and -18 series started and what they became over the long run even before the F-14 was "replaced."

    The crazy thing is, the F-14 and A-10 are a lot alike in many ways. Both were designed around a specific weapon system and for a singular purpose. The A-10 around the GAU-8 and smashing the hell out of Soviet armor and the F-14 around the AWG-9 and the AIM-54 system to smash the hell out of Soviet bombers coming after our fleet.

    The main difference was after the Soviet threat went away, the A-10 was still needed for CAS while the F-14 didn't have a clear purpose any more and they'd already developed the F/A-18 into what they needed. Oh, sure, the F-14s dropped a few bombs in Desert Storm, but what was the F-14 doing that the -18 couldn't do just as well or better in regards to moving mud?

    It really was overtaken by world events and left without a clear purpose. It was a remarkable fighter for it's time especially in regards to how far out it could shoot, but the design itself wasn't easily adapted and that's why they are currently sitting at Davis-Monthan gathering dust.
    All of these, sadly, yes.

    No clear mission, expensive and maintenance-intensive, its destiny was etched in stone. RE: mothballing, I understand most are being destroyed.

    The cost savings by getting rid of it were enormous. A F-18 Super Hornet costs about $17,000/flight hour (and requires about 20 maintenance manhours/flight), a F-14 costs $35,000-$40,000/flight hour (requires 50-60 maintenance manhours/flight).

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand58742 View Post
    But then again, the F-14 never evolved (or was never evolved) like the rest of the Teen series. You think about where the -15, -16 and -18 series started and what they became over the long run even before the F-14 was "replaced."

    The crazy thing is, the F-14 and A-10 are a lot alike in many ways. Both were designed around a specific weapon system and for a singular purpose. The A-10 around the GAU-8 and smashing the hell out of Soviet armor and the F-14 around the AWG-9 and the AIM-54 system to smash the hell out of Soviet bombers coming after our fleet.

    The main difference was after the Soviet threat went away, the A-10 was still needed for CAS while the F-14 didn't have a clear purpose any more and they'd already developed the F/A-18 into what they needed. Oh, sure, the F-14s dropped a few bombs in Desert Storm, but what was the F-14 doing that the -18 couldn't do just as well or better in regards to moving mud?

    It really was overtaken by world events and left without a clear purpose. It was a remarkable fighter for it's time especially in regards to how far out it could shoot, but the design itself wasn't easily adapted and that's why they are currently sitting at Davis-Monthan gathering dust.

    This is an interesting read about the Tomcat 21 proposal and what the F-14 could have been.

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ly-looked-like

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPM View Post
    There has never been anything airborne on this planet like the Raptor. Nothing has ever come close to its capabilities. There is nothing in existence right now that can touch it.
    It would be interesting to see it go 1v1 against a another 5th Gen fighter such as the Chengdu J-20, SU-57, or any of the SU-30/5 variants.
    Last edited by VIP3R 237; 06-23-21 at 14:25.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIP3R 237 View Post
    It would be interesting to see it go 1v1 against a another 5th Gen fighter such as the Chengdu J-20, SU-57, or any of the SU-30/5/7 variants.
    I think an F-22 would dominate any of those aircraft. The SU-30/5/7 is a 4.5 Generation plane at best, SU-57 hasn't really been fielded and I have doubts it is truly a fifth Generation jet. The J-20 probably has some 5th Generation features but is still saddled with 4th Generation engine technology.

    I honestly would put my money on an F-15C flown by a USAF pilot with the latest upgrades (APG-63V3 AESA, Aim-120D,etc..) over an SU-30 series and probably even the SU-57 and maybe a J-20.

    With the SU-30 series and even the SU-57, they aren't winning that many export sales if they are in competition with either F-15s or the Eurofighter, or Dassault Rafale. I think what countries are buying with their money when they have options is a good indication of aircraft's respective performance.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIP3R 237 View Post
    It would be interesting to see it go 1v1 against a another 5th Gen fighter such as the Chengdu J-20, SU-57, or any of the SU-30/5/7 variants.
    I think an F-22 would dominate any of those aircraft. The SU-30/5/7 is a 4.5 Generation plane at best, SU-57 hasn't really been fielded and I have doubts it is truly a fifth Generation jet. The J-20 probably has some 5th Generation features but is still saddled with 4th Generation engine technology.

    I honestly would put my money on an F-15C flown by a USAF pilot with the latest upgrades (APG-63V3 AESA, Aim-120D,etc..) over an SU-30 series and probably even the SU-57 and maybe a J-20.

    With the SU-30 series and even the SU-57, they aren't winning that many export sales if they are in competition with either F-15s or the Eurofighter, or Dassault Rafale. I think what countries are buying with their money when they have options is a good indication of aircraft's respective performance.

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    As far as dogfight maneuverability, I've heard (anecdotally) that the Eurofighter comes pretty close to the F-22. Of course, pilot skill would factor heavily into that.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusader377 View Post

    I honestly would put my money on an F-15C flown by a USAF pilot with the latest upgrades (APG-63V3 AESA, Aim-120D,etc..) over an SU-30 series and probably even the SU-57 and maybe a J-20.
    F-15EX with APG-82 AESA, JHMCS II, EPAWSS, DFCS... The Saudis and Qataris spent over $4 billion developing advanced capabilities for the F-15, and the USAF benefits by buying EXs basically off the shelf with dev and testing already done.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusader377 View Post
    The F-22 by raw performance and capabilities is the most capable air to air fighter ever built. However, it will probably never see real combat and in many ways is a developmental dead end although to be fair that was largely due to political reasons by both the Bush and Obama administrations which capped F-22 production to under 200 aircraft. Ironically the cost of the F-22 was dropping when the program was cut. If the Airforce was allowed to buy several hundred more like it wanted and if they exported it to a few select nations, the F-22 probably would have been a successful repeat of the F-15 but now it looks like the F-15 will probably outlast its replacement the F-22 in service.
    Honestly it's a little embarrassing that the F-22 still does not have an integrated HMD -- if for no other reason than to allow cueing of high-off-boresight missiles like the AIM-9X.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand58742 View Post
    It was a remarkable fighter for it's time especially in regards to how far out it could shoot, but the design itself wasn't easily adapted and that's why they are currently sitting at Davis-Monthan gathering dust.
    I'm pretty sure all the F-14s were scrapped except for a few gate guards and museum displays. This was specifically to keep the Iranians from stealing spare parts for their Tomcats.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by caporider View Post
    Honestly it's a little embarrassing that the F-22 still does not have an integrated HMD -- if for no other reason than to allow cueing of high-off-boresight missiles like the AIM-9X.
    Isn't the F-22 getting the Scorpion helmet?

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