2021 Gunfight: Arvada, CO: LEO, CCW, & BG- and coming gun laws.

[Coal Dragger]

Was given this link by a friend:

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ing-to-sources

Looks like WAS shot by responding LE, which would be VERY easy to happen on a scene like that.

Well that sucks.

Recently had a class for the South Dakota advanced pistol permit, and there was a dude in class who kept asking questions about how to respond to an active shooter. The officer giving the class tried over and over and over again to explain to this dude that it was a bad idea to get involved, because of incidents like this. You’re just some random dude with a gun on a man with gun, or active shooter call. You’re probably going to get shot by responding officers.

This guy didn’t get it. He was also carrying a snub nosed .38 with a 5 round cylinder, couldn’t hit shit, and didn’t have any way to reload aside from loose rounds. Not sure how he would expect to take on Baddy McBadface blasting away at the local mall with a long gun while armed with a Taurus M85.

Seeing as Uncle Sam doesn’t pay me to go find trouble anymore, my ass is getting out of the area if possible with the number 1 priority getting the wife and little boy to safety if they are around. I’m not protecting anyone else if there’s any unnecessary risk to me. Sorry that’s selfish, but I’m not getting shot by the po-po who assume I’m a bad guy to save some stranger’s ass.

[utahjeepr]

Any civvy training that does not go over this likelihood in depth is run by morons. It should include in depth info on how to deal with it when they arrest you (very likely even in legit self defense) and also on ways to minimize your chances of being shot by responding officers. It happens literally ALL THE F'ING TIME!

Sure, cops could maybe use more training on this. Same could be said for a lot of situations. But hell, if all the cops are in training for this that or the other who is gonna be on the street. And yeah, training overload, it's a thing.

Bottom line, saving your ass or others from the bad guy(s) is half of the job. Don't drop the ball and get yourself killed by responding officers. If this guy had kicked the rifle away from the downed shooter and not been holding it when officers arrived he probably would not have gotten his ticket punched. Not saying he deserved it, but shit happens. If you choose to insert yourself into a dangerous situation to help yourself and others, good on you. But you are sticking your head in the Lions mouth. Don't forget where you are!

[Wake27]

Lengthy discussion on P-F indicted he picked up the rifle (presumably to clear it) and that was likely the largest contributing factor.

[jsbhike]

Gonna go with the type of training/indoctrination as a cause of the negative outcome in many cases.

With any luck there will be some 3rd party film footage of the incident pop up so everyone gets to see if claims match reality.

[Disciple]

If you choose to insert yourself into a dangerous situation to help yourself and others, good on you. But you are sticking your head in the Lions mouth. Don't forget where you are!

A statement worthy of repeating.

[SteyrAUG]

Maybe some locales need to start over from scratch then.

Why? They certainly don't think "they" are doing anything wrong. This problem happens when civilians (which ironically includes nearly all levels of LE) don't leave the work to the "professionals."

And sometimes they have a point, but other times the actual first responders are not "professional" but they are here and now and they really need a better plan for that than "hey I saw a guy with a gun so I shot him."

We are constantly told "don't go out there, call the police." "Don't get involved, call the police." "Don't intervene, wait for the police." And then sometimes even when the police do get there they can be "Not my job, move along sir or I'll arrest you."

The answer is of course community policing. But problem communities don't want the police there at all and lots of LEOs don't want to live in any community where they actually work. So many, many problems. You would think nobody remembers the 60s when they were called "pigs" and the massive effort that was undertaken during the 70s and 80s to change that image.

[jsbhike]

Why? They certainly don't think "they" are doing anything wrong. This problem happens when civilians (which ironically includes nearly all levels of LE) don't leave the work to the "professionals."

And sometimes they have a point, but other times the actual first responders are not "professional" but they are here and now and they really need a better plan for that than "hey I saw a guy with a gun so I shot him."

We are constantly told "don't go out there, call the police." "Don't get involved, call the police." "Don't intervene, wait for the police." And then sometimes even when the police do get there they can be "Not my job, move along sir or I'll arrest you."

The answer is of course community policing. But problem communities don't want the police there at all and lots of LEOs don't want to live in any community where they actually work. So many, many problems. You would think nobody remembers the 60s when they were called "pigs" and the massive effort that was undertaken during the 70s and 80s to change that image.

Mentioned before, the exemptions from law(codified or professional courtesy) needs to go from top to bottom(meaning not just police). Since "they" don't like that idea, the start over from scratch in many areas would be the only way that would work. I know it won't happen, so here we are.

The 70s and 80s PR effort hasn't held up well to the advent of commonly available video recording devices.

[titsonritz]

Not a bad write-up given the circumstances of Hurley's unfortunate death...

Post-Shooting Procedures for the Active Killer Gunfight

[jsbhike]

Not a bad write-up given the circumstances of Hurley's unfortunate death...

Post-Shooting Procedures for the Active Killer Gunfight

Need to put some burden on the officers as well. As can be seen in other videos where 2A protestors have notified police in advance, they still arrive on scene amped up and hassle citizens over holstered pistols.

Still really doubt the Hurley holding a rifle claim. They have released video of jackass arriving, shooting the officer, and grabbing the rifle, but the video released cuts off while he is halfway down the area in view of the camera.

[jsbhike]

Lawsuit and more info. The "responding officers" line seems a bit misleading.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/06/...olice-lawsuit/