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Thread: Modernizing the Mk 12 SPR: Recce or Not?

  1. #11
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    I went a even different route.

    With the evolving "threat engagement area's" of both Urban and Rural and the fact that where I live, on 300 acre farm, then drive 6 miles and I'm in a city of 15,000 or 15 miles the other way and in a city of 250,000, my engagement area's are different, but the same.

    I've been following what Lucas at T-Rex Arms has been doing and it got me thinking and this is where I arrived at with my choice in "SPR" concept.

    13.7in Ballistic Advantage Midlength HANSON profile 5.56
    Dead Air Armament Sandman-K and accompanying Muzzle Device to get 13.7 to 16.1in(without can).
    Vortex 2-10 Gen 2 Viper MRAD
    Badger Ord COMM-1 with offset Sig Romeo 5 (I've beat the hell out of this just as you would an Aimpoint..... and it lasted longer than my T1 did with same abuse!)
    BCM lower, BCM 13in MCMR (shaved the front down to work with 13.7 barrel)
    Geissele SSA-E

    With this setup, I can go from an alley fight at 50ft to engaging targets with accurate fire at 500-600 (getting hits at 600 on the farm). Its short enough to not be unwieldy at street fight distances and retains enough velocity to be combat effective at 600.



  2. #12
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    Feb 2011
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    Ohio
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    I took my modernized MK12ish gun out to the range a few months and was pleasantly surprised how much I missed shooting it.

    I forgot how easy it is to shoot and make quick corrections on follow up shots.

    This gun started out as a mod0 project. Updated it awhile back to make it more user friendly.




    WOA 18” SPR barrel
    URX4
    Surefire Socom brake/suppressor
    Bushnell LHRS 3-12


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #13
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    If I were to put together a DMR/SPRish rifle now, I’d put a forend with a Swiss-ARCA rail on the bottom. I have one on my bolt gun and that is a slick way to move hand stops and bipod mounts and other gear along the bottom of the rifle. Plus it gives a flat surface for just general resting.

    https://geissele.com/16-super-modula...18-m-lokr.html
    Last edited by FromMyColdDeadHand; 07-06-21 at 11:35.
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfuhrman View Post
    I went a even different route.

    With the evolving "threat engagement area's" of both Urban and Rural and the fact that where I live, on 300 acre farm, then drive 6 miles and I'm in a city of 15,000 or 15 miles the other way and in a city of 250,000, my engagement area's are different, but the same.

    I've been following what Lucas at T-Rex Arms has been doing and it got me thinking and this is where I arrived at with my choice in "SPR" concept.

    13.7in Ballistic Advantage Midlength HANSON profile 5.56
    Dead Air Armament Sandman-K and accompanying Muzzle Device to get 13.7 to 16.1in(without can).
    Vortex 2-10 Gen 2 Viper MRAD
    Badger Ord COMM-1 with offset Sig Romeo 5 (I've beat the hell out of this just as you would an Aimpoint..... and it lasted longer than my T1 did with same abuse!)
    BCM lower, BCM 13in MCMR (shaved the front down to work with 13.7 barrel)
    Geissele SSA-E

    With this setup, I can go from an alley fight at 50ft to engaging targets with accurate fire at 500-600 (getting hits at 600 on the farm). Its short enough to not be unwieldy at street fight distances and retains enough velocity to be combat effective at 600.


    Cool setup. I've seen Lucas's setups for a while now. I love seeing what everyone has come up with. I guess the major question I would have to ask if I was setting up a rifle or upper would be whether I need to emphasize mobility or range from a fixed position.
    "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill.

    https://learningfromhistory.weebly.com/

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwfuhrman View Post
    I went a even different route.

    With the evolving "threat engagement area's" of both Urban and Rural and the fact that where I live, on 300 acre farm, then drive 6 miles and I'm in a city of 15,000 or 15 miles the other way and in a city of 250,000, my engagement area's are different, but the same.

    I've been following what Lucas at T-Rex Arms has been doing and it got me thinking and this is where I arrived at with my choice in "SPR" concept.

    13.7in Ballistic Advantage Midlength HANSON profile 5.56
    Dead Air Armament Sandman-K and accompanying Muzzle Device to get 13.7 to 16.1in(without can).
    Vortex 2-10 Gen 2 Viper MRAD
    Badger Ord COMM-1 with offset Sig Romeo 5 (I've beat the hell out of this just as you would an Aimpoint..... and it lasted longer than my T1 did with same abuse!)
    BCM lower, BCM 13in MCMR (shaved the front down to work with 13.7 barrel)
    Geissele SSA-E

    With this setup, I can go from an alley fight at 50ft to engaging targets with accurate fire at 500-600 (getting hits at 600 on the farm). Its short enough to not be unwieldy at street fight distances and retains enough velocity to be combat effective at 600.
    Boom!

    You just illustrated why the SPR as a concept is a technological dead end and doesnt need "modernizing". Because a modern AR with a decent barrel and 1-8x or 1-10x scope can do the SPRs job while being shorter, lighter and without compromise for fighting up close.

    Remember the original SPR came out of the need for guys wanting a "Sniper M4" which was supposed to be closer to the Recce concept which bloated into the SPR. Such a heavy and long gun was never wanted in the first place.

    The SPR is for cloners and the dust bin of history, no one needs to be carrying around that weight. Need something optimized for long range? Better off going with a large frame gun like a CSASS. Which is pretty much what the military is doing.
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 07-06-21 at 14:57.
    Forward Ascertainment Group

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicious_cb View Post
    Boom!
    The SPR is for cloners and the dust bin of history, no one needs to be carrying around that weight. Need something optimized for long range? Better off going with a large frame gun like a CSASS. Which is pretty much what the military is doing.
    Precisely..... and I'm reconsidering the 2-10 with offset on this rifle. Honestly reconsidering LPVO's on 5.56 guns period, the weight vs slightly gained capability just isn't there I don't think.

    This optic setup might end up on the market. I wish I hadn't sold my NX8 1-8, it was shorter and lighter than anything else LPVO I've used thus far. Between that NX8 and the EOTech Vudu 1-6, those are just good optics.

    A good 1-6 or 1-8 like the NX8 and Vudu, run it on 1 power and its close enough to a red dot I don't notice any difference up close and if necessary, I can engage at distance on 1x and just use holds like I would a normal dot. Then dial if needed/time allows, no need for offset.

  7. #17
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    With the luxury of both an excellent 18" and 16" setup, I'm pretty much always going to choose the 16" setup. Spend that mass budget on a can, optic, offset optic, and run better ammo, you end up achieving so much more. By the time I've slapped a can on my 18" setup, I might as well be running another caliber, the primary advantage that offers is that it's a tack driver and has a bit more reach, but practically that brings very little over running 3.08 or 6.5 caliber stuff for the same area, just runs the same cheaper ammunition. In practical terms, the SPR only existed because of this shared magazine capability with M4s, as that's the most reach you can achieve using those, but why any units with the option want to run a caliber with more legs inherently, despite the weight and capacity penalties.

    I've had the most luck running a 1.1-6x optic on the 16" setup, although I could swap on a 2.5-Nx optic on there, my current placeholder is a cheaper period correct Leupold on the 18"... I find this less valuable because I'm no longer filling a niche role within a larger unit.

    As far as detailed hardware - a good trigger (SSA-E) is a worthwhile investment, having a QD bipod is always a nice multiplier, but most of the time I'm not using it, just firing off a backpack. A solid multi-use stock is great, which rail is mostly irrelevant, any modern one is great, and slick is usually preferable. Muzzle device - if a can is an option, make that a priority, otherwise, most anything will do. I'm still partial to the old Vortex ones.
    QD bipod

    If you're not trying to replicate anything in particular, realize that overall versatility, and ability to perform well at rock-throwing distances will ultimately be more valuable, so a 1.1-Nx optic is likely going to serve you better overall, and anything you can do to keep the overall weight manageable is going to pay dividends. A good basic light, proper sling mounting, and solid trigger are musts, but everything else can be to preference.
    عندما تصبح الأسلحة محظورة, قد يملكون حظرون عندهم فقط
    کله چی سلاح منع شوی دی، یوازي غلوونکۍ یی به درلود
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    "Being able to do the basics, on demand, takes practice. " - Sinister

  8. #18
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    This gun is a somewhat strange hybrid as well. Honestly, the only reason the higher magnification optic makes any sense in my context is it does double duty as a patrol rifle and sees fairly regular use alternating with a Tikka Tac A1 .308 as an overwatch/sniper rig covering an LE entry team. The additional magnification and larger objective/exit pupil make a non-negligible difference in PID (as compared to a 10x LPVO) in low light at a couple hundred yards. If it was not used in the latter capacity, an LPVO wins out almost every time just for the weight and 1x ability…and it’s not like the LPVO wouldn’t be viable at all even in my particular context; I’ll fully acknowledge there’s a part of me that just likes bigger glass.

    That said, for me there’s honestly only about a 7 ounce difference between this rig and something like a Gen III razor, because I’d run an offset RDS regardless and generally prefer to have a bipod on anything that’s not a dedicated entry gun.

    -Gun is a 14.5” BCM BFH ELW, which is a somewhat strange profile for this application but this barrel is pretty great for what it is; holds a reliable 1 MOA for 5 shots at 100 and helps with balance overall.
    -Badger/Harris bipod
    -Modlite OKW w/Unity Hot Button
    -Vortex Viper PST Gen II (decent for what it is but it’s a placeholder until Leupold finally has Mark 5s back in stock…)
    -Nightforce A496 mount
    -Aimpoint H2 in an Arisaka mount
    -Geissele SSA-E
    -pinned Warcomp (Socom Mini II in NFA jail)


  9. #19
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    Interesting setups in the thread I have been looking at 1-6 and 1-8 LPVO's to pair with a red dot on my 16 inch gun, which currently has a 1-4 on it. But this makes me consider something like a Nightforce 2-10 with a red dot as a overall setup for this rifle, also looked at the option of a mounted red dot with the scope in my backpack with quick release mounts on both, you could switch out in a few seconds if needed. I already have a home defense rifle with a red dot so this would be more of a do it all setup

  10. #20
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    I love the practical responses. Whenever I find myself able to invest in another rifle, I will take y'alls feedback as the basis for my own build.
    "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill.

    https://learningfromhistory.weebly.com/

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