Fauci and Senator Paul. Someone's full of it.

[georgeib]

Where are you getting that from? Specifically the MDs and PhDs. That is diametrically opposed to all of the hospitals here.

Directly from staff at Emory. Including a researcher who himself is an MD and PhD.

[Life's a Hillary]

How else do you characterize providing an as-yet-unlicensed medical procedure to a patient with the understanding that data will be collected to facilitate licensing the procedure? I think that falls within "experimental”

The term “experimental” implies that it is untested or not yet finalized. The vaccines have gone through all the scientific trials so they are in fact tested. I could see how one could say they are not finalized due to not receiving full FDA approval so I’ll concede that point with the rebuttal that the vaccines are in fact finalized in their current state. People who voluntarily entered the studies were certainly participating in an experimental procedure, once those were conducted, the data collected, analyzed, and determined to be safe and effective I’d consider the experiment complete. They are still following those people in the studies because they always do that, it’s how trials work, but there was enough data to make clear conclusions.

So no, I wouldn’t personally consider it experimental at this stage, I would consider it a proven prophylactic vaccine that is only awaiting a check box in a long bureaucratic process that is unnecessary for implementing its use.

[Life's a Hillary]

Directly from staff at Emory. Including a researcher who himself is an MD and PhD.

I put little faith in that considering the rate of vaccination among doctors in the Texas hospital systems. This is just a he said/she said so there’s not much use in either statement.

However, data provided by the AMA showing 96% of physicians are vaccinated in the US. I’m sure skeptics would say that’s manufactured or skewed though. Houston Methodist was one of the first to mandate the vaccine and only 153 resigned or were fired due to not meeting that mandate meaning an overwhelming majority of employees (26,000) were vaccinated. When the mandate rolled out, 95% had already received their first shot.

[AndyLate]

So no, I wouldn’t personally consider it experimental at this stage, I would consider it a proven prophylactic vaccine that is only awaiting a check box in a long bureaucratic process that is unnecessary for implementing its use.

We could use the correct term and call it an unapproved vaccine, if that is more personally acceptable to you.

From the Moderna fact sheet required to be distibuted to care givers and recipients "The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is an unapproved vaccine that may prevent COVID-19. There is no FDA-approved vaccine to prevent COVID-19."

Andy

[georgeib]

I put little faith in that considering the rate of vaccination among doctors in the Texas hospital systems. This is just a he said/she said so there’s not much use in either statement.

However, data provided by the AMA showing 96% of physicians are vaccinated in the US. I’m sure skeptics would say that’s manufactured or skewed though. Houston Methodist was one of the first to mandate the vaccine and only 153 resigned or were fired due to not meeting that mandate meaning an overwhelming majority of employees (26,000) were vaccinated. When the mandate rolled out, 95% had already received their first shot.

Emory hasn't mandated it yet, and strong-armed the staff into getting it. So that may help explain the divergence.

[Adrenaline_6]

I don’t agree with lockdowns or mask mandates, especially now that vaccines are freely available. I personally don’t even care if you get vaccinated or not, I do think it’s dumb not to though. However, there is a ridiculous amount of blatant misinformation being spread about the vaccines here by people bitten by the conspiracy bug who even triple down when presented with evidence contrary of their theory. If presenting factual evidence makes me a pro vax plant then sure, I come to a low traffic gun message board because I’m getting paid by George Soros and big pharma.

It doesn't really matter that you don't agree with it. That isn't up for debate or care. The fact that it is being done, on top of vaccines makes no logical sense. If getting a vaccine changes nothing in the grand scheme of things on the way we are living, then why do it?

[Korgs130]

Long term effects for vaccines are incredibly rare and if there are issues they present themselves within the first two months. This is from historical data from all vaccine trials as well as data from working with mRNA technology. There’s just no mechanism from mRNA vaccines that would cause a problem to suddenly show up long term. The trials looking at safety have been going on for quite some time now, far longer than necessary to be confident in long term safety.

1. Define “long term”
2. How many years worth of data on mRNA vaccines does your referenced “historical” data provide?

[Artos]

Here's another listen from Dr Malone / inventor mrna & his take on Fauci / delta with Bannon...


https://americasvoice.news/video/52yuumbXjNBWeOh/

[glocktogo]

So tell me, what would get the ardent anti COVID vaccine people to change their mind? It’s not scientific evidence, do we need to coddle them? Genuinely curious since logic doesn’t seem to work.

The proof is in the fact that these vaccines went through the same scientific trial process as every other vaccine. What more do you want? The data is out there. Do you ask your doctor to prove the antibiotics they give you for strep throat isn’t another Tuskegee Experiment? If not, why don’t you ask your doctor what their feelings are on the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are.

It's hilarious that you want to fall back on "logic", while ignoring even the most basic knowledge of human nature. Your head is so stuck in the science that you're attempting to refute irrefutable evidence, that what the government has done didn't work, and what they're about to do is absolutely the worst thing they could possibly do to get a different result. Look at you in the very next paragraph! You're comparing these brand new EUA approved Covid "vaccines" to the Z-Pak, that's been fully approved for use since 1988! What you're missing is not really that hard to hard to understand. It's FULL APPROVAL and 32 years of real world evidence. Oh, and let's not dismiss out of hand the lack of government mandates on its use, not to mention the fact that the government has paid for it's manufacture, been the largest purchaser AND handed out blanket immunity from any negative effects due to its use. If it was as good as you say, the companies producing it wouldn't need blanket immunity, and the president wouldn't have to be calling everyone who doesn't trust them an idiot.

Oh and as for your "same scientific trial process", it's been exactly the same process for lots of of FDA approved medicines that were later recalled, black labeled (you do know what that means, right?) or approval was withdrawn. You want a very personal example that directly affected me? Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telithromycin (Seriously, read it, it's not very long.) That was prescribed by my doctor whom I trusted, was FDA approved for the use it was prescribed to me, and I experienced severe side effects that were far worse than the condition it was prescribed to treat. It was patented in 1994, FDA approved in 2001, prescribed to me in 2005, "black labeled" in 2007 and subsequently withdrawn from the market. It still goes on every health form I fill out, just in case. So excuse me if I don't fall in line because some rando on the interwebs thinks I'm a stupid science denier.

So the question is, do you really think this is all because we're medically ignorant? Can you not figure this out for real? Pfizer didn't conduct the Tuskegee Experiment for 40 years. Our own government did that and they never held ANYONE responsible! And I'm sorry to break this news to you, but if you're going to sit there and ignore the SCIENCE behind all this, then YOU are the science denier here, not us! All you have to do is Google "Tuskegee Experiment repercussions" and you'll have a veritable avalanche of SCIENCE that proves you wrong. Are you a science denier? If you don't believe me, will you at least believe the National Center for Biotechnology and the National Institutes of Health? Because here it is in black and white: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2568333/

If you dismiss them then YOU have the problem, not us. You're being flatly told that the public trust has been eroded and breached, and you're attempting to shift blame everywhere except where it belongs. No one trusts you, because you have no track record of being trustworthy. You can sit there in your ivory tower of arrogance and blame us for that, but the facts remain immutable. The only thing that can change those facts is for you and all the other forces shoving this down our throats, to admit that your past is littered with failures and ethical breaches of trust, and SHOW how this time is different. Don't lie to us and say "the science is right and you're wrong if you don't believe it". Science has been wrong before and you have no evidence that it's perfected now.

Or you can continue to be blissfully ignorant of the truth and remain steadfastly obtuse. The choice is yours.

The term “experimental” implies that it is untested or not yet finalized. The vaccines have gone through all the scientific trials so they are in fact tested. I could see how one could say they are not finalized due to not receiving full FDA approval so I’ll concede that point with the rebuttal that the vaccines are in fact finalized in their current state. People who voluntarily entered the studies were certainly participating in an experimental procedure, once those were conducted, the data collected, analyzed, and determined to be safe and effective I’d consider the experiment complete. They are still following those people in the studies because they always do that, it’s how trials work, but there was enough data to make clear conclusions.

So no, I wouldn’t personally consider it experimental at this stage, I would consider it a proven prophylactic vaccine that is only awaiting a check box in a long bureaucratic process that is unnecessary for implementing its use.

I put little faith in that considering the rate of vaccination among doctors in the Texas hospital systems. This is just a he said/she said so there’s not much use in either statement.

However, data provided by the AMA showing 96% of physicians are vaccinated in the US. I’m sure skeptics would say that’s manufactured or skewed though. Houston Methodist was one of the first to mandate the vaccine and only 153 resigned or were fired due to not meeting that mandate meaning an overwhelming majority of employees (26,000) were vaccinated. When the mandate rolled out, 95% had already received their first shot.

Do you not even hear what you sound like? I think at this point ethics dictate that you disclose your qualifications and affiliations. If you think you deserve some level of deference in this matter and everyone here is beneath you in knowledge as it relates to Covid vaccines, you should have no qualms backing up your talk with bona fides. It's a free country and you're welcome to refuse, but don't expect anyone to believe a word you say if you don't.

[Life's a Hillary]

It's hilarious that you want to fall back on "logic", while ignoring even the most basic knowledge of human nature. Your head is so stuck in the science that you're attempting to refute irrefutable evidence, that what the government has done didn't work, and what they're about to do is absolutely the worst thing they could possibly do to get a different result. Look at you in the very next paragraph! You're comparing these brand new EUA approved Covid "vaccines" to the Z-Pak, that's been fully approved for use since 1988! What you're missing is not really that hard to hard to understand. It's FULL APPROVAL and 32 years of real world evidence. Oh, and let's not dismiss out of hand the lack of government mandates on its use, not to mention the fact that the government has paid for it's manufacture, been the largest purchaser AND handed out blanket immunity from any negative effects due to its use. If it was as good as you say, the companies producing it wouldn't need blanket immunity, and the president wouldn't have to be calling everyone who doesn't trust them an idiot.

Oh and as for your "same scientific trial process", it's been exactly the same process for lots of of FDA approved medicines that were later recalled, black labeled (you do know what that means, right?) or approval was withdrawn. You want a very personal example that directly affected me? Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telithromycin (Seriously, read it, it's not very long.) That was prescribed by my doctor whom I trusted, was FDA approved for the use it was prescribed to me, and I experienced severe side effects that were far worse than the condition it was prescribed to treat. It was patented in 1994, FDA approved in 2001, prescribed to me in 2005, "black labeled" in 2007 and subsequently withdrawn from the market. It still goes on every health form I fill out, just in case. So excuse me if I don't fall in line because some rando on the interwebs thinks I'm a stupid science denier.

So the question is, do you really think this is all because we're medically ignorant? Can you not figure this out for real? Pfizer didn't conduct the Tuskegee Experiment for 40 years. Our own government did that and they never held ANYONE responsible! And I'm sorry to break this news to you, but if you're going to sit there and ignore the SCIENCE behind all this, then YOU are the science denier here, not us! All you have to do is Google "Tuskegee Experiment repercussions" and you'll have a veritable avalanche of SCIENCE that proves you wrong. Are you a science denier? If you don't believe me, will you at least believe the National Center for Biotechnology and the National Institutes of Health? Because here it is in black and white: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2568333/

If you dismiss them then YOU have the problem, not us. You're being flatly told that the public trust has been eroded and breached, and you're attempting to shift blame everywhere except where it belongs. No one trusts you, because you have no track record of being trustworthy. You can sit there in your ivory tower of arrogance and blame us for that, but the facts remain immutable. The only thing that can change those facts is for you and all the other forces shoving this down our throats, to admit that your past is littered with failures and ethical breaches of trust, and SHOW how this time is different. Don't lie to us and say "the science is right and you're wrong if you don't believe it". Science has been wrong before and you have no evidence that it's perfected now.

Or you can continue to be blissfully ignorant of the truth and remain steadfastly obtuse. The choice is yours.





Do you not even hear what you sound like? I think at this point ethics dictate that you disclose your qualifications and affiliations. If you think you deserve some level of deference in this matter and everyone here is beneath you in knowledge as it relates to Covid vaccines, you should have no qualms backing up your talk with bona fides. It's a free country and you're welcome to refuse, but don't expect anyone to believe a word you say if you don't.

Lots of typing without much substance. Let me know when you have your plan for how to get the ardent anti-vax crowd on board.