Geissele rifles & uppers.

[Diz]

Duly noted. And I agree to a certain extent. Right now I am torn between ordering another SF OBC or getting a LMT eBCG. So I agree on the value of LMT parts into the build. KAC is a whole 'nother level. But you gotta give the devil his due. Geiselle is the new hotness. If they do get the contract for CAG guns to replace the -416 it will get even worse. So maybe for us that still build this stuff, and don't have to have the latest and greatest, we will use other parts. But I suspect, as you argued about Colt getting the contracts and the numbers to get in-depth feedback from, it will be much the same for Geiselle. If CAG rolls with their piece, then the herd will follow, and Geiselle will get all that additional T&E to improve the product. Of course it's gonna cost more, but as long as the fanboys buy it, the prices will remain high.

But yeah I kinda like what you're thinking. We can quietly buy up late-model Colt stuff while Geiselle struts around the barnyard.

[okie]

Duly noted. And I agree to a certain extent. Right now I am torn between ordering another SF OBC or getting a LMT eBCG. So I agree on the value of LMT parts into the build. KAC is a whole 'nother level. But you gotta give the devil his due. Geiselle is the new hotness. If they do get the contract for CAG guns to replace the -416 it will get even worse. So maybe for us that still build this stuff, and don't have to have the latest and greatest, we will use other parts. But I suspect, as you argued about Colt getting the contracts and the numbers to get in-depth feedback from, it will be much the same for Geiselle. If CAG rolls with their piece, then the herd will follow, and Geiselle will get all that additional T&E to improve the product. Of course it's gonna cost more, but as long as the fanboys buy it, the prices will remain high.

But yeah I kinda like what you're thinking. We can quietly buy up late-model Colt stuff while Geiselle struts around the barnyard.

There's always that hypebeast crowd who has to have the latest and greatest. If some version of the Geissele ends up being fielded in large numbers then there's a great argument to be made in terms of buying that same model, if it's the same, and if there's transparency saying yes this is the same upper that gets shipped to them, pulled off the same racks.

I'm extremely skeptical, though. Various guns have been fielded by special units over the last 20 years or so and everybody was like, welp this is it, this is the gun that's going to replace the M4. And in reality what happened is this or that unit bought some to try out, maybe used them a little, then went straight back to the M4s and Mk18s. I imagine this will be much the same. They're going to find out it doesn't do anything that the M4 can't do just as well, at a fraction of the cost.

[Wake27]

I've seen guys mention this in a couple of threads and just wanted to add, a lot of these weapons get coated with camo paint of one kind or another. So whatever the base coating is, it will have a high probability of being coated with something else. So I don't see this as being any big deal, in comparison to all the anodized parts, when the whole she-bang will (probably) be camo-coated anyways.

I camo paint all my rifles, and a few of my friends as well. So the base finish isn't that much of a concern. While I prefer a tanodized or phosphate base, just about anything will do. Point is the new coating will be taking care of business, as far as corrosion is concerned. I can only imagine that a lot of the unit armorers will be thinking the same. So unless the spec calls out for a phosphate finish, I don't see this as any deal-breaker. To me it's all primers.

I really don't see that many painted guns FYI, on or off duty.

[indianalex01]

The M27, of course, was a bit of an end around to get a new standard infantry rifle. I figured the Marines would (and they still might) start modifying the M27 to lighten it, shorten it and, in the end, pretty much turn it into the same HK416 JSOC was using.

At this point though, I'm wondering how long the M27 will be the standard issue rifle for the Marines. I wonder if they'll go to something closer to the Geissele rifle, that is, a 14.5 mid-length DI gun, or something like that.

I don’t see them trying to lighten them up because they have a lot on the rail. PEQ, grip, bipod many times and lights at times. Barrel is 16 inch and a socom type barrel profile. MARSOC don’t want it due to weight mainly. The corps is also running them with suppressors now.

[Diz]

On painting yeah that depends on a lot of things. My buddy did a deployment recently and ended up working with several other SF units. One of the takeaways was how much difference camo paint made to knock down the glint of their rifles. So when he came back I ended up coating all his rifles. He used to laugh at me because I was so old school and camo'd everything. But these are all privately owned; the ones in the armory, probably not. And this is at company level, in a NG Group. So if your sit is similar, then you may not be seeing painted rifles in your Armory either.

I based that statement just on anecdotal evidence, based on photos of supposed JSOC weapons in the wild. Actually the milsim guys, like "The Reptile House" have the best references of open source material. My assumption is they are probably legit. So based off that, I'd say any new rifles going into JSOC will have a high probability of being coated for deployment. Especially now since peer-to-peer threats are much more likely.

[Wake27]

JSOC maybe, I don’t pretend to know what’s going on behind the curtain. With the URGI rails and several optics already being fielded in some tan variant though, almost all of the paint I’ve seen in a long time has been old.

I’m not disagreeing with the effectiveness, just saying that it’s far less common than many may expect.


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[Diz]

Yeah I gotcha, and you're right I went over to Reptile House this morning and sure as shit most "in the wild" pics weren't sporting any camo paint, IAW Murphy's Law.

So yeah you are absolutely right, at the "no" armory level (me), and the NG SF group level (my bud), there may not be any painted rifles floating around. And let me state for the record, I DO NOT know of anything going on at the CAG/Devgru level, other than what's available from open source material. So yeah I concur, at JSOC, maybe those guys are over there painting 'em for the win, but who knows.

I do know one thing. There is a higher level of awareness these days of what glints under NV. So it would not surprise me to see weapons (and other kit) painted on future deployments. I know the new anodizing is a vast improvement over the "black liqurice stick", but a nice flat coating over that would be even better. DDC may work, but "40MM" green needs some tweaking. Would not be surprised to see HK-style Olive Drab anodizing show up on Geiselle stuff.

[Wake27]

Yeah I gotcha, and you're right I went over to Reptile House this morning and sure as shit most "in the wild" pics weren't sporting any camo paint, IAW Murphy's Law.

So yeah you are absolutely right, at the "no" armory level (me), and the NG SF group level (my bud), there may not be any painted rifles floating around. And let me state for the record, I DO NOT know of anything going on at the CAG/Devgru level, other than what's available from open source material. So yeah I concur, at JSOC, maybe those guys are over there painting 'em for the win, but who knows.

I do know one thing. There is a higher level of awareness these days of what glints under NV. So it would not surprise me to see weapons (and other kit) painted on future deployments. I know the new anodizing is a vast improvement over the "black liqurice stick", but a nice flat coating over that would be even better. DDC may work, but "40MM" green needs some tweaking. Would not be surprised to see HK-style Olive Drab anodizing show up on Geiselle stuff.

What deployments?

[Diz]

Uh, not sure on how to answer that. I have no crystal ball, so I cannot predict world events. I know my buddy's NG Group is still deploying to their their areas of responsibility. I can only ASSUme JSOC will be deploying to various locations around the globe. I know there is a big artic warfare exercise up in Norway this winter, because we have been invited to it, to show n tell our rucksacks. Luckily my boss has to go, not me, ha ha. My ASSumption is either 10th Group and/or 10th Mtn might be invited to the party.

So in generic terms, my assumption is that someone from SOCOM, be it SF, NSW, or JSOC components will probably camo their weapons on an overseas deployment in the future. Is that such a stretch? Maybe my boss could bring back some pics from Norway?

[Wake27]

Uh, not sure on how to answer that. I have no crystal ball, so I cannot predict world events. I know my buddy's NG Group is still deploying to their their areas of responsibility. I can only ASSUme JSOC will be deploying to various locations around the globe. I know there is a big artic warfare exercise up in Norway this winter, because we have been invited to it, to show n tell our rucksacks. Luckily my boss has to go, not me, ha ha. My ASSumption is either 10th Group and/or 10th Mtn might be invited to the party.

So in generic terms, my assumption is that someone from SOCOM, be it SF, NSW, or JSOC components will probably camo their weapons on an overseas deployment in the future. Is that such a stretch? Maybe my boss could bring back some pics from Norway?

Oh yeah they’re still doing stuff like that but they have other stuff to think about besides painting rifles. It doesn’t really serve a significant purpose unless we’re already at war. Again, it’s not that I don’t think there is some value but you’re thinking about it as much more of a gun guy than most that are actual on teams.


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