CDC To Announce COVID Vaccines Don’t Work on Delta Variant

[Arik]

I think the big fat American's thing is an extreme generalization and is exaggerated. I look at the people in my neighborhood and none of them are "o-beast" but appear to be relatively fit and normal.

For my sample of one, I weigh the same as I did in high school with the same or lower body fat content. (Its been a very long time since I was in high school.)

What's normal or fit looking. We're used to seeing everyone as rather plump!

I'm 6'1 and 206 and that's overweight by about 20 lbs

Best way to know is see a doctor and have a workup. You don't need to be 300lbs to have high BP or diabetes.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Diamondback]

You don't even need to dredge up history to distrust this nonsense. Every single step taken by our "experts" has made this problem worse, not better.

Steve Kirsch has a $2M reward out there for anyone who can point to one thing that has been done correctly since this nonsense started. He still holds his $2M and has had no takers.

True, but I'm a historian so I usually find it easier to communicate when I can bring up past parallels and make the argument that "this is just the latest version of [fill in the blank]."

[Averageman]

I think the big fat American's thing is an extreme generalization and is exaggerated. I look at the people in my neighborhood and none of them are "o-beast" but appear to be relatively fit and normal.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/prevalence-maps.html
Pretty enlightening.

[WillBrink]

I think the big fat American's thing is an extreme generalization and is exaggerated. I look at the people in my neighborhood and none of them are "o-beast" but appear to be relatively fit and normal.

For my sample of one, I weigh the same as I did in high school with the same or lower body fat content. (Its been a very long time since I was in high school.)

We must be in very different neighborhoods as I see obese people all over the place at the supermarket, mall, etc, etc. Regardless, we lead the world in obesity, diabetes (a major co morbidity) and other lifestyle related diseases, such as CVD, etc. We have reports from the DOD that the terrible general health and obesity of ever younger people makes them "too fat to fight" and represents a serious NS issue, any doc will tell you how often those in the ER are obese, etc, etc.

Some co morbidity, we have no control over, like aging, some disease, etc., but we are not a healthy society, and getting worse, and covid has exposed that reality in spades for us all to see.

Which, if it gets discussed at all, will be a blip, and then back to more commercials about latest greatest pharma drug to treat high A1C, and big gulp sodas and stuff.

With 300m + people, I'd say conservatively 50% with at least 1 co morbidity, keeping them alive long enough to complete their life cycle as a good consumer and voter via vaccines, is a no brainer.

[rero360]

I have crohn’s, or at least a immune response to environmental conditions where I live that mimics the symptoms of crohn’s. I have an extremely mild case of WPW that the VA failed to fix. I’ve been exposed to all sorts of nasty stuff over the 21 years I’ve been in the Army, I’m 38 and am currently a little out of shape, 5’10”, just under 200 pounds.

I don’t trust any of the information I’m getting about both the virus and the vaccines so I refuse to get the jab and I live my life as best as I can like I always have (mask up around the germaphobe wife when we’re in public to ease her anxiety)

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Have you listen to what the man who created the MRNA has to say about the experimental vaccine?

https://listen.warroom.org/e/episode...peter-navarro/

If haven't listened why?

I listened to it and I have a number of issues with it:
6 month immunity from natural or vax? I think we are seeing longer than that, and if you had COVID last year, that means that the vax is your future..
THe side-effects from the vax? Maybe, could's. He takes the position that for people at risk of dying, take the vax. Children, outside of IC, probably not.
Interesting comments about why the full approval isn't coming. But how can you have a cabal so powerful that it is pushing the vax so far, but won't screw with the data for full approval? Not a great argument.
"Gene Therapy" ain't what this is. It is not changing your genetic information in your DNA. He uses the term only once or twice in the start, and he may have been using it to describe how people describe it.
His point that a 'leaky' vax is bad because it will lead to super strains is actually backwards. If the vax wasn't leaky and killed off all the current strains, that would open the path for a new strain. Competitive inhibition of sorts from the delta still circulating at a high R0, but not killing vax'd people is the best of both worlds in some ways.

I agree with 95% of what I heard, the issue is that you had a hard science guy on with some hard politics guys; the message get tweaked a bit.

Overall I agree with his path forward. Vax for people at risk, natural immunity for everyone else, and this is now endemic to humans.

From the article
".......I am speaking of the US in particular, but it is important to point out that in the US the establishment is still desperately clamoring for a much higher vaccination rate. In places like Europe, the UK and Australia vaccinations rates are higher"

Australia's vaccination rates aren't higher. In fact they're only at about 15% for fully vaccinated and double for 1st dose. With 12.3 million doses given. US on the other hand is at 50% with 346 million doses

UK is at 57%
Germany and Italy 52%
France 47%
Spain 57%
Canada 59%
Poland 46%

So we're pretty much in line with everyone else even though we have a lot more people.

And they started later and have approached or are passing our vax rates. Their vax rates aren't higher because of a lack of supply, not resistance. Was talking to a buddy in the EU this weekend and he said that there isn't nearly the anti-mask/vax movement there as there is here. He spent the first half of his life in the US, and he finds the resistance to vax and especially masking to be odd. I told him that is how you ended up with Mussolini...

[pinzgauer]

Reading through the thread, it seems like folks really do not understand what vaccines do (and don't) achieve medically...

Their job is to pre-train your body to recognize and respond very quickly with T-killers to invaders. Something that typically would occur naturally over time if infected, assuming you survived the infection.

They are not some form of force shield which repels virus clouds.

So the so-called "Breakthru" cases are not really a surprise. And are composed of two different groups:
1) folks who tested positive via nasal swab, but never really "had" COVID (no symptoms, etc).
2) Those who showed symptoms, typically mild. And subsequently were confirmed to be positive via testing.

Getting a viral load in the nasal cavities is like walking into a cloud of smoke or flour from a mill. It's present as you breathed it in, no more no less. And can be detected via swab if tested, assuming large enough quantities.

Mere presence in detectable quantities does not imply infection... only presence.

So it's painfully inaccurate to say someone "got COVID" just because they tested positive in a nasal swab test and never showed symptoms. Nor does it imply vaccine failure, in fact has nothing to do with the vaccine.

I'll leave it to the medical folks to conjecture on how many times folks test positive yet never show symptoms. But it should be no surprise that politicos who are routinely tested proactively occasionally show positive even if vaccinated. Could just mean they walked through a cloud. Or could mean they had an infection, but the body dealt with it prior to showing symptoms (it was pre-trained, remember)

So then there are the ones who were vaccinated, yet still "got COVID". Bucket #2, showed symptoms. These are the true breakthrough cases. And the facts are very clear: those who did show symptoms typically had very mild ones, often to the point that they would not have known it was COVID if not tested proactively. Their bodies were already trained, johnny on the spot. Detected invader, ramped up response (fever, white blood cells, etc), and dealt with it. The number of cases where where vaccinated people "caught COVID" and had to be admitted is very small. And even smaller yet the number who had to be put on respirators. (Something like 0.1%).

It feels like there needs to be a clearer definition beyond a positive nasal swab... mild COVID might be positive test + showing fever, respiratory distress, etc. Serious COVID requiring hospitalization with 24x7 supplementary O2 to keep saturation above 90%. And critical as Serious + being on respirator, etc.

There's a bunch of noise out there even by agencies who probably know better. Not accurate enough in their descriptions/language. And we are all over the place in this thread.

You can get the vaccine or not. Believe it works or not. But at least understand what it does and how it works.

And no, the CDC absolutely did not say the vaccine "does not work on delta", the OP and thread title is entirely inaccurate. Over time the virus could mutate enough that it becomes less effective. No indications of that being the case now. The increases in cases are largely due to (surprise) more unvaccinated folks getting infected and spreading. Delta does appear to be more "infectious" in the sense that smaller viral loads can cause infection.

[pinzgauer]

Was talking to a buddy in the EU this weekend and he said that there isn't nearly the anti-mask/vax movement there as there is here. He spent the first half of his life in the US, and he finds the resistance to vax and especially masking to be odd. I told him that is how you ended up with Mussolini...

And yet there are active protests and police interaction in both Germany and France on this masks/vaccination.

I will say informally with my EU (and really world wide) employees, any who could get the vaccine did. So small sample group... very little vaccine resistance. Then again, the ones in India and Bulgaria have had family members die. (Especially India)

[pinzgauer]

We must be in very different neighborhoods as I see obese people all over the place at the supermarket, mall, etc, etc. Regardless, we lead the world in obesity, diabetes (a major co morbidity) and other lifestyle related diseases, such as CVD, etc. We have reports from the DOD that the terrible general health and obesity of ever younger people makes them "too fat to fight" and represents a serious NS issue, any doc will tell you how often those in the ER are obese, etc, etc.

Some co morbidity, we have no control over, like aging, some disease, etc., but we are not a healthy society, and getting worse, and covid has exposed that reality in spades for us all to see.

Which, if it gets discussed at all, will be a blip, and then back to more commercials about latest greatest pharma drug to treat high A1C, and big gulp sodas and stuff.

With 300m + people, I'd say conservatively 50% with at least 1 co morbidity, keeping them alive long enough to complete their life cycle as a good consumer and voter via vaccines, is a no brainer.

I agree with your core/final point, but also think the routine (Fat 'Merican) co-morbidity COVID risk is a bit overblown. Is it a risk factor? Sure. Is it a death sentence? Clearly not. Nor is being fit make COVID risk free. I know multiple overweight/obese folks late 50's early 60's who got it and ran the normal range of ER visit to no big deal, thought it was a cold. One hospitalized. And I know fit folks who had serious impact, even some young ones. (Even a new one, I now have a family member with "COVID Foot"... it may be a decade before we know the real impact of this virus https://www.aad.org/public/diseases/...rus/covid-toes )

Morbidly Obese is a different situation. But then again, they already had to know that... it's in the definition of the category they are in. They are obese enough that there is serious health risk from their weight, not just from the contributing factors.

[pinzgauer]

Is there a difference between a ‘breakthrough infection’ and and infection, as in virus present in the nasal passages?

The data and communication on this is absolute crap.

yep, that is the core issue, sloppy communication and poor definitions.

Are you "infected" by pollen/dust because you have them present on a nasal cavity swab? yet if they were in your lungs due to reproduction, tricking cells into protecting them, and creating issues you would.

Maybe there are better diagnostic tests than the deep nasal cavity swab.

Nurse niece had a false negative test due to routine nasal swab testing. Apparently earlier tests removed/disrupted the membrane they swabbed and not enough bio material was present. Test showed negative, yet she had it and gave it to one of her parents.