CDC To Announce COVID Vaccines Don’t Work on Delta Variant

[Averageman]

Maybe I’m misremembering biology, but I think I was taught that virus mutation is always less lethal as an adaptation to stop killing the host, which is the only place the virus can replicate. Is there new “science” now?

I remember learning this, however, a virus acts, but the success of that act either prolongs or kills off the host.
Successful virus's weaken and lessen their effects, that's the long term looking back on a virus theory. These stay with us forever.
Viral materials however have no plan, they can go nuts, kill off all the hosts and die out. These burn out quickly because they kill the hosts before they can be passed on to another host.

[chuckman]

What are some examples?

Bird flu, HIV, some strains of Hep C, ebola...

[WillBrink]

When the truth is that they have not worked on Covid and has proven to be harmful, hence Biden crediting Trump for the vaccine yesterday.

CDC did not say that, vaccines work extremely well against covid, and does work against Delta, only slightly less effective according to several large published studies. Oddly, the page you posted links to a study that shows the efficacy and safety of the vaccines in general, and does not support the linked claims at all:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...159v1.full.pdf

That's what you get when a highly biased site from a author who does not science uses a study to support their position, that literally says the opposite what they claim...

If anything, Delta is a motivator to get vaccinated. Best to get info from primary sources vs interpretations of biased web sites. For non scientists, with links to studies for those who science:

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-delta-variant

Bottom line: vaccines don't, and never claimed to, prevent infection per se. They do appear highly effective at reducing serious complications, hospitalizations, and deaths, including Delta.

I'm also the one who, from the very start, advocated for other approaches and adjuvant approaches on this site and continue to do, but misinformation, disinformation, and pseudo science on vaccines does not help us in anyway, and to a large extent, why we are in the cluster F.

There's no doubt the powers that be, let us all down, mostly due to their pissing match and dislike for the orange guy, and from day one, covid became politicized and weaponized, and we have every right to be angry and question all info supplied at this point, but at some point it's also cutting of yet nose to spite ye face, and that's happening way too much also.

When the dust settles on this one, there will be a lot of finger pointing and most of them will be right!

[HKGuns]

I told my 85 year old, diabetic, mother to get the vaccine in April, because of her risk factors.

She was in pretty much perfect health, for her age, her sugar has been under control for 20 years. She has been demonstrating signs of dimensia since early May and it is progressing quickly. ZERO family history of this and she was fine at Christmas.

I now count it as the worst advice I have ever given.

- Can I prove it is the vaccine? Nope
- Do I think it is the vaccine? Yep
- Will it ever be counted as the vaccine? Nope

[WillBrink]

I told my 85 year old, diabetic, mother to get the vaccine in April, because of her risk factors.

She was in pretty much perfect health, for her age, her sugar has been under control for 20 years. She has been demonstrating signs of dimensia since early May and it is progressing quickly. ZERO family history of this and she was fine at Christmas.

I now count it as the worst advice I have ever given.

- Can I prove it is the vaccine? Nope
- Do I think it is the vaccine? Yep
- Will it ever be counted as the vaccine? Nope

Had she gotten covid and died, how would you feel then? I'm not disparaging your comments, and don't think her experience should be ignored, and some do report "brain fog" from the vaccine, but as you point out, difficult to really pinpoint her experience to the vaccine considering her age, and the reality is as always: risk vs benefits, her risks of taking her chances with having covid (and Delta pretty much guarantees those not not vaccinated will get it) vs the vaccine.

Data strongly favors the vaccine in her case.

Now, you could also say, at 85, quality vs quantity is really the issue and better off she took her chances with covid, and if it was her time it was her time, and I can understand that POV too, and passing no judgments on that POV.

But, we are stuck between making some often difficult decisions here, much of which (most?) we can blame on what I said above, us being caught in the middle of the political pissing match between orange guy and those who hate him.

That's what should make us all really angry. That's what makes me really angry.

[WillBrink]

Bird flu, HIV, some strains of Hep C, ebola...

My understanding is the mode of transmission seems to be an factor, and in respiratory viruses, the general trend is to become more contagious/transmissible but less lethal, which makes some sense.

[HKGuns]

Had she gotten covid and died, how would you feel then? I'm not disparaging your comments, and don't think her experience should be ignored, and some do report "brain fog" from the vaccine, but as you point out, difficult to really pinpoint her experience to the vaccine considering her age, and the reality is as always: risk vs benefits, her risks of taking her chances with having covid (and Delta pretty much guarantees those not not vaccinated will get it) vs the vaccine.

Data strongly favors the vaccine in her case.

Now, you could also say, at 85, quality vs quantity is really the issue and better off she took her chances with covid, and if it was her time it was her time, and I can understand that POV too, and passing no judgments on that POV.

But, we are stuck between making some often difficult decisions here, much of which (most?) we can blame on what I said above, us being caught in the middle of the political pissing match between orange guy and those who hate him.

That's what should make us all really angry. That's what makes me really angry.

There are a couple things that make me very angry.

1. They are ignoring proven, viable, therapeutic options and pushing an experimental vaccine 100%, as a one size fits all solution for everyone. Including pregnant women and children.

2. There was no reason for 700,000 people to die in this country. Whatever their reasons, I tend to think they are political, yet they continue to let people die, when they know very well, this virus is treatable.

THIS is what pisses me off and it should piss everyone off to the point where we DRAMATICALLY reduce the size of the over lords and so-called "experts."

[WillBrink]

They are ignoring proven, viable, therapeutic options and pushing the vaccine 100% as a one size fits all solution for everyone.

There was no reason for 700,000 people to die in this country.

Whatever their reasons, I tend to think they are political, they've let people die, when they knew very well, this virus is treatable. THIS is what pisses me off and it should piss everyone off to the point where we DRAMATICALLY reduce the size of the over lords and so-called "experts."

Per comments, and the fact I started a thread at the very beginning of all this to focus on adjuvant approaches, I fully agree there.

It's bordering on criminal negligence, certainly medical negligence, to actively suppress other therapeutics, but I and others have been saying that as it pertains to cancer, CVD, diabetes, etc for decades now, 30 years for me, and those kill millions.

This event perhaps made that a more acute reality that end of the day, the system protects itself and both by its design and intent, stifles and blocks anything that threatens that system, such as inexpensive therapeutics that either can't be patented, or simply out of patent.

It's disgusting and it needs to stop, and maybe, covid will have exposed that reality enough where people say enough is enough. Check out the book written by a friend of mine: Pharmocracy:

https://www.amazon.com/Pharmocracy-M...dp/1607660113/

Having said all that, I think the vaccines are an essential tool in the tool box in this situation.

[Korgs130]

There are a couple things that make me very angry.

1. They are ignoring proven, viable, therapeutic options and pushing an experimental vaccine 100%, as a one size fits all solution for everyone. Including pregnant women and children.

Agree on this 100%. The lack of candor in dealing with this is mind boggling, but not surprising. Follow the $. Billions to be made from the “vaccine”. No profit in saving lives with Ivermectin.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I think part of the issue is how hard and easy it is to ‘prove’ something. In these medical studies, the populations always suck. They just do. Even in huge national things like this. You run a study get results. Someone run another study and gets different result. And that is for researchers that are actually looking at data and not trying to get a certain result, which is frankly rare.

Anyways, it seems that this CDC action is all based on a Provincetown, MA case cluster- one in which no one dies. To speak Massachusetts- pretty whicked Pandemic that doesn’t kill anyone…