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Thread: Question to real ‘pipe-hitters’ ‘snake-eaters’ etc-true effective range of AR?

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    Question to real ‘pipe-hitters’ ‘snake-eaters’ etc-true effective range of AR?

    I am not nor was I ever an operator. I was a line unit grunt who did a couple deployments to the sandbox. From there I’ve become quite the AR enthusiast, as are we all.

    So for my 16” 5.56 guns I kinda figure they are good out to 500-600 yards with mk262 clone loads which is most of what I have. This has dictated my choice of optics (LPVO in 1-6 and 2-10 range).

    Now lately I’ve been re-examining this philosophy and find lots of people who claim to be subject matter experts in the way of the gun claiming that a 16” AR is no good past 300 yards. If that’s true then red dots on everything and keep things simple without the expense of more complex scopes. I run my ballistic calculators and see that the bullets themselves don’t go subsonic until we’ll past 600 which would dictate something with a bit more magnification.

    So what gives? Why the disconnect between ballistics and concept? Is it just what’s ‘in’ now? Frankly I always liked my ACOG/RMR setup but seems like that’s ancient history now lol.

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    IF you know the tenants of marksmanship, have accurate, heavy grained ammo, a good optic & can call wind...youre good on out to 800yds or more.
    Iraqgunz..I THINK it was him, told a story of witnessing an 800yd {I THNK} shot whilst in the desert. Dont know if it was with an optic or what.
    But anyway..its WAY out past 300 yards.
    " Be NOT ye afraid of them..
    Remember the Lord, for He is GREAT & TERRIBLE!
    FIGHT for your bretheren..for your sons & for your daughters,
    for your wives & for your households"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Shooter View Post
    IF you know the tenants of marksmanship, have accurate, heavy grained ammo, a good optic & can call wind...youre good on out to 800yds or more.
    Iraqgunz..I THINK it was him, told a story of witnessing an 800yd {I THNK} shot whilst in the desert. Dont know if it was with an optic or what.
    But anyway..its WAY out past 300 yards.
    I’m no ninja but I do alright.
    I remember the special forces guys we would work with (outer cordon during raids, transportation, etc) talking about MK12s and 262 being good to 800.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendelshooter View Post
    I’m no ninja but I do alright.
    I remember the special forces guys we would work with (outer cordon during raids, transportation, etc) talking about MK12s and 262 being good to 800.
    Ive got a 20" SPR I had put together & if I could EVER get time behind the trigger..I would NOT hesitate to pop a shot out that far, if the wind wasnt crazy.
    One of our esteemed members here recently put a round on target at 1300 yds..with a M700 I think it was, and several attempts. I dont know if that round woulda had "killin power" or not..but he did it.
    Last edited by Straight Shooter; 08-03-21 at 08:42.
    " Be NOT ye afraid of them..
    Remember the Lord, for He is GREAT & TERRIBLE!
    FIGHT for your bretheren..for your sons & for your daughters,
    for your wives & for your households"!

  5. #5
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    Effective how? A 55 gr 5.56 bullet has about the same energy at 1000 meters as a standard velocity 22 LR does at the muzzle. At some point, hitting a target and having the desired effect on the target are not the same.

    What do you intend to shoot at extended range?

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    Effective how? A 55 gr 5.56 bullet has about the same energy at 1000 meters as a standard velocity 22 LR does at the muzzle. At some point, hitting a target and having the desired effect on the target are not the same.

    What do you intend to shoot at extended range?

    Andy
    Covid vax zombies of course

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    I have a kill at 410 meters with a SDMR and M262. My old team/squad leader who went SF has kills out around 400 meters with his Mk18. Like was said above IraqGunz had a story of witnessing a SF guy smoking a dude at over 800 yards with a M4 and a LPVO of some sort.

    I've seen guys shot with M855 out past 300 meters. It'll still drill a hole completely through you and probably come out sideways.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
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    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    I have a kill at 410 meters with a SDMR and M262. My old team/squad leader who went SF has kills out around 400 meters with his Mk18. Like was said above IraqGunz had a story of witnessing a SF guy smoking a dude at over 800 yards with a M4 and a LPVO of some sort.

    I've seen guys shot with M855 out past 300 meters. It'll still drill a hole completely through you and probably come out sideways.
    That’s bogus. I was talking to a special ops Instagram guy. He’s salty at the moment that a Medal of Honor recipient called him out for being a nerd, but that’s a separate issue. Anyway, he said be was special forces USMC green beret and 5.56 deflected off blades of grass.

    So 400m kills with an M4? No way!

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    There’s a few factors here. External ballistics, terminal performance, and you, the shooter. The max distance at which you can reliably spot and identify targets and get hits on a unknown distance target that has no desire to be shot is your max effective range. Sort of. Your projectile may or may not expand or upset or whatever at that distance, but IMO, all hits matter past a certain distance. Whether dude dies immediately, or simply starts bleeding is less important than at close range, where you need him out of the fight RIGHT NOW. Sure, the bullet performing as designed at 500 would be great, too. But here’s the thing…. you still have to see the threat, and identify it as a threat, and hit however much of the threat is presented. So its situationally dependent.
    RLTW
    “Y-you realize that nighttime makes up half of all time?” -Rick Sanchez

    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    There’s a few factors here. External ballistics, terminal performance, and you, the shooter. The max distance at which you can reliably spot and identify targets and get hits on a unknown distance target that has no desire to be shot is your max effective range. Sort of. Your projectile may or may not expand or upset or whatever at that distance, but IMO, all hits matter past a certain distance. Whether dude dies immediately, or simply starts bleeding is less important than at close range, where you need him out of the fight RIGHT NOW. Sure, the bullet performing as designed at 500 would be great, too. But here’s the thing…. you still have to see the threat, and identify it as a threat, and hit however much of the threat is presented. So its situationally dependent.
    Whatever. I have 20 days of training. I know more than you.

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