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Thread: What 5.56 and 7.62 cans to buy?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    The Pew science does seem to like the CGS cans, but all their testing is with bolt guns. The CGS cans are quiet, but I imagine that suppression comes at the price of lots of gas impulse and gas to the face.
    Nope. And testing with bolt guns eliminates useless extra variables that'd just serve to confuse people.

    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    What's unfortunate is that the CGS cans with the flow through caps attached seem to perform significantly worse than the OSS cans on sound suppression. With the solid end caps, they perform better on sound, but much worse on gas. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too.

    ETA: The Hyperion-K seems to be an outlier. Good sound performance, light weight, and low gas impulse. Hmm.
    You've only seen one silencer with solid cap and full vent cap data. CGS can give you everything in between solid cap and full vent cap across the entire spectrum of sound, flash, and gas reduction. End caps that will be released in the future allow the end user to tailor the silencer as needed with different vent size and quantity and also some other stuff. And on 5.56 you should be using the solid cap anyway.
    Previously did all design work at CGS Group, 2014-2024.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by paco ramirez View Post
    Nope. And testing with bolt guns eliminates useless extra variables that'd just serve to confuse people.



    You've only seen one silencer with solid cap and full vent cap data. CGS can give you everything in between solid cap and full vent cap across the entire spectrum of sound, flash, and gas reduction. End caps that will be released in the future allow the end user to tailor the silencer as needed with different vent size and quantity and also some other stuff. And on 5.56 you should be using the solid cap anyway.
    I would actually love to discuss this with you offline. Can I just call the number?
    “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” -Augustine

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    I would actually love to discuss this with you offline. Can I just call the number?
    Office number should be 575-736-2474, but here's a write up a did a few days ago for Arfcom a few days ago regarding all the CGS rifle silencers:

    The additive manufacturing process we use makes our rifle silencers far stronger than other comparative rifle silencers for a few reasons. Our manufacturing process creates parts with even higher strength and hardness than billet or forgings or castings or MIM, and does so with increased material density. There are no welds so there are no welds to fail and no welds to warp causing concentricity problems along the length of the silencer. This eliminates welding issues such as welds breaking and their byproducts such as warping, entirely. The monolithic structure and lack of welds make CGS rifle silencers very strong and eliminates failures, concentricity problems, and QC issues from welds. Even if the weld looks perfectly silver on the exterior you can easily have something that looks fine on the outside but the weld won’t penetrate properly for a number of reasons such as electrical problems within the machine itself, operator error, contamination, etc, so it’ll be super weak and it won’t be caught until the weld failure occurs in the end users hands as their using it. That applies to all materials, not just titanium, and failures like that are part of why CGS no longer gets silencers welded by another silencer company.

    The Hyperion VCD design itself makes the silencer stronger than any other comparative silencer by better controlling heat and pressure to prevent hot spots from forming. The first chamber is immediately vented and gas is allowed to flow around the first core and is then reintroduced to the main flow further down stream and this also helps reduce thermal signature. Simplicity in design eliminates small, complex cavities and other undesirable features. The titanium silencers also have a proprietary heat treatment applied which further increases strength and hardness. They're internally coated with hexagonal boron nitride which decreases friction, increases surface hardness, and prevents fouling from sticking in the first place which eliminates the need to clean because fouling can't easily stick to internal geometry, though they still could be cleaned if ever required. The internal coating also limits/eliminates titanium white sparking depending on cartridge and barrel length. Titanium white sparking is a separate thing from flash and can't be controlled with a flash hider. The exterior is coated with black DLC. They're also the only dual function silencers available that can be converted simply by changing out the front cap with a 7/8" wrench. This allows you to have a traditional type silencer and a flow bypass type silencer all in one simple package. With future front cap releases it'll also be adjustable across the entire spectrum of sound, flash, and gas reduction just by swapping out the front cap. No longer do you have to live with just one permanent setting on a silencer. The Hyperion has a 5/8x24 direct thread mount with a SIG 25 deg taper already machined into it. The Helios QD is basically a short Hyperion with a 1.375x24 rear mount interface so the mount type can be changed out. Both front caps and rear caps are retained with shallow taper joints which helps with concentricity and cap retention as it has more grip than a square shoulder. This also makes it future proof so regardless of when new front or rear caps are made they'll always be concentric to the silencer bore.

    As an example of another benefit of the unique CGS design, here's an old uncoated Hyperion which was torture tested in a very short amount of time on an 18" AR10 to a round count of 12,800rds of 260 Remington. Note that if this older silencer was coated with hexagonal boron nitride it wouldn't contain that fouling which is shown in this uncoated cutaway, and also note the newer DMLS models are even stronger and more durable than this was: https://www.instagram.com/p/COWHRfTLleZ/

    CGS rifle silencers are also some of the very few that don't sacrifice subsonic performance to achieve supersonic performance, it excels at both without compromise. Usually rifle silencers will either be good at supersonic and mediocre at subsonic, or good at subsonic and mediocre at supersonic. This can be seen with SIG and Q silencers where they're good at subsonic suppression but don't perform with supersonic ammo anywhere near as well. Since 99% of strikes occur on the front cap, since we don't use any welds in our silencers, and since our DMLS process creates a superior product in every meaningful way there's nothing that's going to need repairing other than on extremely rare occasion the front cap which is easily sent in the mail. In over three or four years no DMLS rifle silencers have been returned for repair from military, government, or commercial customers or consultants because the root of the primary problems are eliminated. Take the Helios QD series as an example which is a 5.56 silencer but the bore is .355" in diameter tapering larger going forward to .375. This eliminates strikes from unstable projectiles when fired out of super short barrels such as the 5.5" Maxim PDX. This is the end result of the Helios QD on a Maxim 5.5" 5.56 PDX after it was put through two SOCOM firing tables, make sure to read the caption and comments for further details: https://www.instagram.com/p/B9ZtgSgJJPA/

    The CGS Hyperion was originally built for an 18" 260 Remington AR10 and a 6.75" 300 Blackout machine gun, it wasn't made for bolt guns. Even though it wasn't built for bolt guns it excels at long range precision while also providing additional recoil reduction compared to traditional silencer types. Helios QD was originally made for the M249 SAW, MK46, and variants and 10.3", 10.4", and 10.5" 5.56 select fire carbines and compared to other silencers the CGS models excel and flash hiding as well and in the future additional front caps will be offered with further enhanced flash hiding capability as well as for the vented front caps which will have a flash hider for each peripheral vent for as close to complete signature reduction as is possible. All CGS rifle silencers standard front caps have a micro flash hider built into the 7/8" hex feature. Here are some precision and POI shift pics: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNG5AQ0r...dium=copy_link , https://www.instagram.com/p/CNL92dQr...dium=copy_link , https://www.instagram.com/p/CNdAhkSL...dium=copy_link

    The Hyperion VCD technology is also used in our GPMG 762 silencer made for the M240, MAG 58, MK48, etc as well as belt fed 338 Norma Magnum machine guns. Here's 1259rds fired through one on an M240: [MEDIA=youtube]jx_pqId55N8[/MEDIA]

    The effectiveness of this technology can also be seen plainly in the Helios QD. It's nearly 2" shorter than a Thunderbeast Ultra 9 but it's very nearly the same suppression level and the Helios QD is just as capable of a precision long range rifle silencer as an Ultra 9, if not more so: https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...-qd-savage-308 and https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...a-9-savage-308

    On a 22" bolt gun firing supersonic 6.5 Creedmoor the Hyperion's even quieter than some other silencers firing subsonic Blackout through an 8" bolt gun: https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...n-surgeon-65cm and https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...minifix-300blk

    And it's very nearly the same suppression rating as the https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...minifix-300blk and Hyperion's still quieter at the ear.

    It's also quieter firing supersonic 6.5 Creedmoor on a 22" bolt gun than shooting subsonic 9mm through the CGS MOD 9 on an HK P30L: https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...cgsmod9fs-p30l

    Helios QD suppression capability compared to the Sandman S:
    https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...-qd-savage-308
    https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...n-s-savage-308
    Previously did all design work at CGS Group, 2014-2024.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by paco ramirez View Post
    Office number should be 575-736-2474, but here's a write up a did a few days ago for Arfcom a few days ago regarding all the CGS rifle silencers:

    The additive manufacturing process we use makes our rifle silencers far stronger than other comparative rifle silencers for a few reasons. Our manufacturing process creates parts with even higher strength and hardness than billet or forgings or castings or MIM, and does so with increased material density. There are no welds so there are no welds to fail and no welds to warp causing concentricity problems along the length of the silencer. This eliminates welding issues such as welds breaking and their byproducts such as warping, entirely. The monolithic structure and lack of welds make CGS rifle silencers very strong and eliminates failures, concentricity problems, and QC issues from welds. Even if the weld looks perfectly silver on the exterior you can easily have something that looks fine on the outside but the weld won’t penetrate properly for a number of reasons such as electrical problems within the machine itself, operator error, contamination, etc, so it’ll be super weak and it won’t be caught until the weld failure occurs in the end users hands as their using it. That applies to all materials, not just titanium, and failures like that are part of why CGS no longer gets silencers welded by another silencer company.

    The Hyperion VCD design itself makes the silencer stronger than any other comparative silencer by better controlling heat and pressure to prevent hot spots from forming. The first chamber is immediately vented and gas is allowed to flow around the first core and is then reintroduced to the main flow further down stream and this also helps reduce thermal signature. Simplicity in design eliminates small, complex cavities and other undesirable features. The titanium silencers also have a proprietary heat treatment applied which further increases strength and hardness. They're internally coated with hexagonal boron nitride which decreases friction, increases surface hardness, and prevents fouling from sticking in the first place which eliminates the need to clean because fouling can't easily stick to internal geometry, though they still could be cleaned if ever required. The internal coating also limits/eliminates titanium white sparking depending on cartridge and barrel length. Titanium white sparking is a separate thing from flash and can't be controlled with a flash hider. The exterior is coated with black DLC. They're also the only dual function silencers available that can be converted simply by changing out the front cap with a 7/8" wrench. This allows you to have a traditional type silencer and a flow bypass type silencer all in one simple package. With future front cap releases it'll also be adjustable across the entire spectrum of sound, flash, and gas reduction just by swapping out the front cap. No longer do you have to live with just one permanent setting on a silencer. The Hyperion has a 5/8x24 direct thread mount with a SIG 25 deg taper already machined into it. The Helios QD is basically a short Hyperion with a 1.375x24 rear mount interface so the mount type can be changed out. Both front caps and rear caps are retained with shallow taper joints which helps with concentricity and cap retention as it has more grip than a square shoulder. This also makes it future proof so regardless of when new front or rear caps are made they'll always be concentric to the silencer bore.

    As an example of another benefit of the unique CGS design, here's an old uncoated Hyperion which was torture tested in a very short amount of time on an 18" AR10 to a round count of 12,800rds of 260 Remington. Note that if this older silencer was coated with hexagonal boron nitride it wouldn't contain that fouling which is shown in this uncoated cutaway, and also note the newer DMLS models are even stronger and more durable than this was: https://www.instagram.com/p/COWHRfTLleZ/

    CGS rifle silencers are also some of the very few that don't sacrifice subsonic performance to achieve supersonic performance, it excels at both without compromise. Usually rifle silencers will either be good at supersonic and mediocre at subsonic, or good at subsonic and mediocre at supersonic. This can be seen with SIG and Q silencers where they're good at subsonic suppression but don't perform with supersonic ammo anywhere near as well. Since 99% of strikes occur on the front cap, since we don't use any welds in our silencers, and since our DMLS process creates a superior product in every meaningful way there's nothing that's going to need repairing other than on extremely rare occasion the front cap which is easily sent in the mail. In over three or four years no DMLS rifle silencers have been returned for repair from military, government, or commercial customers or consultants because the root of the primary problems are eliminated. Take the Helios QD series as an example which is a 5.56 silencer but the bore is .355" in diameter tapering larger going forward to .375. This eliminates strikes from unstable projectiles when fired out of super short barrels such as the 5.5" Maxim PDX. This is the end result of the Helios QD on a Maxim 5.5" 5.56 PDX after it was put through two SOCOM firing tables, make sure to read the caption and comments for further details: https://www.instagram.com/p/B9ZtgSgJJPA/

    The CGS Hyperion was originally built for an 18" 260 Remington AR10 and a 6.75" 300 Blackout machine gun, it wasn't made for bolt guns. Even though it wasn't built for bolt guns it excels at long range precision while also providing additional recoil reduction compared to traditional silencer types. Helios QD was originally made for the M249 SAW, MK46, and variants and 10.3", 10.4", and 10.5" 5.56 select fire carbines and compared to other silencers the CGS models excel and flash hiding as well and in the future additional front caps will be offered with further enhanced flash hiding capability as well as for the vented front caps which will have a flash hider for each peripheral vent for as close to complete signature reduction as is possible. All CGS rifle silencers standard front caps have a micro flash hider built into the 7/8" hex feature. Here are some precision and POI shift pics: https://www.instagram.com/p/CNG5AQ0r...dium=copy_link , https://www.instagram.com/p/CNL92dQr...dium=copy_link , https://www.instagram.com/p/CNdAhkSL...dium=copy_link

    The Hyperion VCD technology is also used in our GPMG 762 silencer made for the M240, MAG 58, MK48, etc as well as belt fed 338 Norma Magnum machine guns. Here's 1259rds fired through one on an M240: [MEDIA=youtube]jx_pqId55N8[/MEDIA]

    The effectiveness of this technology can also be seen plainly in the Helios QD. It's nearly 2" shorter than a Thunderbeast Ultra 9 but it's very nearly the same suppression level and the Helios QD is just as capable of a precision long range rifle silencer as an Ultra 9, if not more so: https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...-qd-savage-308 and https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...a-9-savage-308

    On a 22" bolt gun firing supersonic 6.5 Creedmoor the Hyperion's even quieter than some other silencers firing subsonic Blackout through an 8" bolt gun: https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...n-surgeon-65cm and https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...minifix-300blk

    And it's very nearly the same suppression rating as the https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...minifix-300blk and Hyperion's still quieter at the ear.

    It's also quieter firing supersonic 6.5 Creedmoor on a 22" bolt gun than shooting subsonic 9mm through the CGS MOD 9 on an HK P30L: https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...cgsmod9fs-p30l

    Helios QD suppression capability compared to the Sandman S:
    https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...-qd-savage-308
    https://pewscience.com/sound-signatu...n-s-savage-308
    Thank you very much for that informative post, Paco. What is the weight of the Helios QD with one of the threaded rear caps, and either one of the front caps, please? I see it listed as 19 oz at Silencer Shop, but I'm guessing that's with the whole kit, as the Helios DT only weighs 10.2 oz.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgeib View Post
    Thank you very much for that informative post, Paco. What is the weight of the Helios QD with one of the threaded rear caps, and either one of the front caps, please? I see it listed as 19 oz at Silencer Shop, but I'm guessing that's with the whole kit, as the Helios DT only weighs 10.2 oz.
    Helios QD is full 718 Inconel and 17-4 H900 front and rear caps, core weight is 18oz and a sealed front cap is 1.1oz so if I were to guess completely assembled with 1/2x28 it's probably 20.5oz, and using 5/8x24 it'll be a bit lighter. I don't recall off the top of my head the accurate assembled weight but that's my best guess since I don't have a rear cap with me to weigh right now. If you're using the QD Adapter Ring instead of direct thread the overall weight will be less than direct thread config before you add your QD system of choice. It all starts with the core weight then whatever accessories are added to it determine final weight.

    The Helios QD Ti, the new titanium version being released any day, will be around half the weight of the 718 Inconel version and will still be able to handle more abuse than other titanium silencers. The Helios DT weighs 10.2oz just because it's made of titanium and not Inconel, it's shorter than the Helios QD and the mount is built into the core.
    Last edited by paco ramirez; 08-26-21 at 13:58.
    Previously did all design work at CGS Group, 2014-2024.

  6. #16
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    I have a WC 7.62, SpecWar 556k, Omega9k, and Sandmank.
    If I were buying one today, it would be a 36M. it does everything.

  7. #17
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    I’m a little surprised Rex Silentium has not come up yet. I like the 3 of mine. Light, effective, inexpensive, whatever length and bore diameter you want. Modular mount. Modular end caps and lengths if desired.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by paco ramirez View Post
    Helios QD is full 718 Inconel and 17-4 H900 front and rear caps, core weight is 18oz and a sealed front cap is 1.1oz so if I were to guess completely assembled with 1/2x28 it's probably 20.5oz, and using 5/8x24 it'll be a bit lighter. I don't recall off the top of my head the accurate assembled weight but that's my best guess since I don't have a rear cap with me to weigh right now. If you're using the QD Adapter Ring instead of direct thread the overall weight will be less than direct thread config before you add your QD system of choice. It all starts with the core weight then whatever accessories are added to it determine final weight.

    The Helios QD Ti, the new titanium version being released any day, will be around half the weight of the 718 Inconel version and will still be able to handle more abuse than other titanium silencers. The Helios DT weighs 10.2oz just because it's made of titanium and not Inconel, it's shorter than the Helios QD and the mount is built into the core.
    I appreciate it. Sounds like the Helios QD Ti will the one to get. Hopefully you guys are shipping an order to SilncerShop.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1168 View Post
    I’m a little surprised Rex Silentium has not come up yet. I like the 3 of mine. Light, effective, inexpensive, whatever length and bore diameter you want. Modular mount. Modular end caps and lengths if desired.
    Which mounts are you using ?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter22 View Post
    Which mounts are you using ?
    Griffin Plan A. I’ve also experimented with others, including KeyMo, but I keep coming back to Plan A due to added length and weight. I just wish someone would make Griffin Taper and Gate Lock 6315s.

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