Sig 320 safety issues

[HCM]

Notably the military issue p320's do have a manual safety and there aren't any reports I've seen of the military pistols firing on their own.

That tells me that the issue is resolved by a trigger safety, and most likely that issue was inadvertent manipulation of the trigger.

There have been mechanical AD’s with M17s.

Doesn’t mean most M17/320 unintentional discharges aren’t negligent rather than accident / mechanical failures.

The manual safety on the M17/18/320 only blocks the trigger bar. It does not block the the striker.

The issue with certain original design 320, upgraded 320s and m17s is a mechanical failure of the sear / striker engagement.

Hence in those intakes of actual mechanical failure, the manual safety locking the trigger bar has zero effect.

Anyone saying all 320s or all the incidents are the same are wrong regardless of which side they are taking.

[Martin248]

There's a detent that doesn't block the striker, but certainly does mechanically prevent it from moving. The trigger has to move at least through the initial travel for that detent to be withdrawn. The upgraded P320's also have a second ledge on the sear surface to catch the striker if it slips off the first.

I've never heard a convincing explanation of how it could fire without the trigger moving at least far enough to retract the striker safety detent, and far enough so that the striker isn't captured by the second ledge on the sear.

[chamber143]

Notably the military issue p320's do have a manual safety and there aren't any reports I've seen of the military pistols firing on their own.

That tells me that the issue is resolved by a trigger safety, and most likely that issue was inadvertent manipulation of the trigger.

If I remember correctly the SOP of the Air Force is round chambered with safety off. Not sure why you would have that as your SOP but maybe they don't trust them to disengage the safety before firing The Army is round chambered and safety on. Who knows but I am pretty confident of the system as a whole as I have tried all kinds of things to get it to discharge and couldn't. Not scientific I know but I have shot enough and trained with it enough to feel confident. If you don't feel confident with a certain firearm by all means don't shove it in your pants.

[chamber143]

There's a detent that doesn't block the striker, but certainly does mechanically prevent it from moving. The trigger has to move at least through the initial travel for that detent to be withdrawn. The upgraded P320's also have a second ledge on the sear surface to catch the striker if it slips off the first.

I've never heard a convincing explanation of how it could fire without the trigger moving at least far enough to retract the striker safety detent, and far enough so that the striker isn't captured by the second ledge on the sear.

I haven't either and I am not saying it cant or hasn't happened, I just cant see how it could. I know all things can have issues and a firearm isn't something you want malfunctioning but in reality I find it to be safe. I would like for the striker to not be under tension but I believe that that is what aids in such a nice and even trigger pull.

[3ACR_Scout]

Haven’t read the whole thread.

The one news story I saw was a female officer carrying her gun in a purse, when it discharged.

She insists it went off on its own, but what is more likely: the gun spontaneously fired, or something in her purse caused it to fire?

Here’s an article with video that aired on ABC News. Note that it makes a point of stating that her P320 had the upgrade (unclear if they mean SIG upgraded it or it was purchased after the update). She states that the patios was in a Serpa holster in her handbag when it discharged. I absolutely despise that terrible holster, but I’d want to see if it was possible for something in her bag to get inside the trigger guard. Her department concluded that it was an “uncommanded discharge,” so hopefully they investigated that possibility. The incident occurred in December 2020.

Lawsuit: Semi-automatic police service gun goes off by itself, nearly killing detective

I’ll just add that I was disgusted by the misogynistic comments about this story on the other site by people who have probably never worn a uniform. If the cause was somehow related to her carrying the pistol on her bag, then I’m sure she could have secured it better (such as in a purpose-built carry handbag), but I’d prefer to know what the real cause was rather than speculate that it was related to her being a woman.

Anyway, I bought an M17 last month and have enjoyed shooting it so far. I’ve carried a Glock 19 for years, and I don’t plan to change, but the SIG has some features I prefer. I find the grip angle more comfortable and natural on the SIG, and I like the more positive ejection of a spent magazine. I dislike the higher bore axis, which (possibly combined with the grip angle) results in more felt recoil / muzzle rise. I personally think the modular design of the P320 can be very useful. I’m tempted to buy an M18, because with the shorter slide, I could change out the frame for a Compact 15-round frame and have a smaller carry pistol, then return it to the full size 17-round grip for “tactical” use. Kind of like having a Glock 19 and 45 in one pistol. Not necessary, but it has its uses.

[chamber143]

Here’s an article with video that aired on ABC News. Note that it makes a point of stating that her P320 had the upgrade (unclear if they mean SIG upgraded it or it was purchased after the update). She states that the patios was in a Serpa holster in her handbag when it discharged. I absolutely despise that terrible holster, but I’d want to see if it was possible for something in her bag to get inside the trigger guard. Her department concluded that it was an “uncommanded discharge,” so hopefully they investigated that possibility. The incident occurred in December 2020.

Lawsuit: Semi-automatic police service gun goes off by itself, nearly killing detective

I’ll just add that I was disgusted by the misogynistic comments about this story on the other site by people who have probably never worn a uniform. If the cause was somehow related to her carrying the pistol on her bag, then I’m sure she could have secured it better (such as in a purpose-built carry handbag), but I’d prefer to know what the real cause was rather than speculate that it was related to her being a woman.

Anyway, I bought an M17 last month and have enjoyed shooting it so far. I’ve carried a Glock 19 for years, and I don’t plan to change, but the SIG has some features I prefer. I find the grip angle more comfortable and natural on the SIG, and I like the more positive ejection of a spent magazine. I dislike the higher bore axis, which (possibly combined with the grip angle) results in more felt recoil / muzzle rise. I personally think the modular design of the P320 can be very useful. I’m tempted to buy an M18, because with the shorter slide, I could change out the frame for a Compact 15-round frame and have a smaller carry pistol, then return it to the full size 17-round grip for “tactical” use. Kind of like having a Glock 19 and 45 in one pistol. Not necessary, but it has its uses.

I too love the grip angle and trigger pull and many other things about the p320. I do and will continue to carry a Glock 19 because I do not like the fact that the hammer is at 100% precock making what the lady experienced easier. I haven’t had a single issue or malfunction with my Sigs but I do not trust them in My pants.

[3ACR_Scout]

I too love the grip angle and trigger pull and many other things about the p320. I do and will continue to carry a Glock 19 because I do not like the fact that the hammer is at 100% precock making what the lady experienced easier. I haven’t had a single issue or malfunction with my Sigs but I do not trust them in My pants.

That’s a good summary of how I feel too. It’s a bummer, because I seem to shoot the M17 a little better, and I’d be tempted to buy a black M18, a Wilson Combat compact frame, and carry it. The Wilson Combat P320 models are really appealing too, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable carrying one at this point.

The M17 will be a fun range pistol, a way to hang on to my Army roots after I retire in a few years, and maybe an HD option, but I don’t plan to ever carry it.

[Pappabear]

so i didn’t read the entire thread. scanned around trying to figure out how does the gun just go off? i mean for those that understands the mechanics, just how ?

[Texaspoff]

I too love the grip angle and trigger pull and many other things about the p320. I do and will continue to carry a Glock 19 because I do not like the fact that the hammer is at 100% precock making what the lady experienced easier. I haven’t had a single issue or malfunction with my Sigs but I do not trust them in My pants.

Don't let that thought of the Glocks fire control system status, not being fully tensioned be a safety net for you. In the event the striker was to slip off the trigger bar, and the striker block safety failed, there is enough force for a Glocks striker to set off a round. This has bee proven multiple times over the years. Now I'm not saying Glocks aren't safe, but do not allow a condition of the weapon to cause you to believe it is more safe than any other platform by design.

With that, and waiting to see the facts of this incident, not just what has been reported by media outlets, but to see the actual investigation report, I won't make any final decisions.

Based on what has been reported so far, it appears she may have not had the pistol in a secure area of her purse, holster or not. The holster in question has had previous issues, questioning it's security and safety enough that several training facilities, including FLETC and Gunsite to name a few, have banned it's use.

The other issue with this incident, is, she nor anyone else, could see the weapon when it discharged. Therefore, without seeing the weapon, since it was in her purse, how could she or anyone else say without a doubt, nothing was in the trigger guard area and actuated the trigger and firing sequence causing the discharge?

I have intimate knowledge of the Sig 320 and while the pre upgraded models, could be made to discharge under a certain condition, this has been resolved, IMO and due to my own personal testing of some of our 320's used by officers in our department. We even destroyed a couple of frames attempting to duplicate the drop fire issue, that by the way, some of the pistols tested would do before they were upgraded.

IMO, I believe some outside source or object caused the discharge and based on the previous drop fire issue with the 320, this was the first and easiest way to explain what happened. Time will tell, maybe, and maybe there will never be a definitive answer as to how or why it happened.

I am carrying a 320 on duty currently, and have absolutely zero concerns about it based on what I have put this pistol through to verify it's mechanically safe. I have also carried Glocks in the past during my career and have no issues with them and being worried about their mechanical safeties, even with all the claimed, "My Glock just went off by itself" over the years.



TXPO

[chamber143]

Don't let that thought of the Glocks fire control system status, not being fully tensioned be a safety net for you. In the event the striker was to slip off the trigger bar, and the striker block safety failed, there is enough force for a Glocks striker to set off a round. This has bee proven multiple times over the years. Now I'm not saying Glocks aren't safe, but do not allow a condition of the weapon to cause you to believe it is more safe than any other platform by design.

With that, and waiting to see the facts of this incident, not just what has been reported by media outlets, but to see the actual investigation report, I won't make any final decisions.

Based on what has been reported so far, it appears she may have not had the pistol in a secure area of her purse, holster or not. The holster in question has had previous issues, questioning it's security and safety enough that several training facilities, including FLETC and Gunsite to name a few, have banned it's use.

The other issue with this incident, is, she nor anyone else, could see the weapon when it discharged. Therefore, without seeing the weapon, since it was in her purse, how could she or anyone else say without a doubt, nothing was in the trigger guard area and actuated the trigger and firing sequence causing the discharge?

I have intimate knowledge of the Sig 320 and while the pre upgraded models, could be made to discharge under a certain condition, this has been resolved, IMO and due to my own personal testing of some of our 320's used by officers in our department. We even destroyed a couple of frames attempting to duplicate the drop fire issue, that by the way, some of the pistols tested would do before they were upgraded.

IMO, I believe some outside source or object caused the discharge and based on the previous drop fire issue with the 320, this was the first and easiest way to explain what happened. Time will tell, maybe, and maybe there will never be a definitive answer as to how or why it happened.

I am carrying a 320 on duty currently, and have absolutely zero concerns about it based on what I have put this pistol through to verify it's mechanically safe. I have also carried Glocks in the past during my career and have no issues with them and being worried about their mechanical safeties, even with all the claimed, "My Glock just went off by itself" over the years.



TXPO

Interesting. I remember reading somewhere that the glocks were no where near enough tension to ignite a primer. Can’t remember where I read that but I simply feel safer with a Glock than the sig which is sad. Because I shoot a sig much better than Glock. One thing I really like about Glock is I can look at the trigger and know what condition a Glock is in. I know it’s a simple thing but i like that


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