Sig 320 safety issues

[chadbag]

So you removed the striker block, and had to pry the striker from the cruciform sear, something that won't happen without outside input and some method of accessing the striker/sear area. Interesting information, but it ranks in the possible category but not probable category.

I think you missed his point. For someone worrying about it, if for some reason there is a failure, the striker at partial tension can still ignite a primer and he was able to test this. Both guns have additional safety features meant to mitigate this, but as the last-resort line of defense, the Glock method is also going to allow, at least in some cases [primer hardness, ammo type, etc] a round to be discharged.

[YVK]

So you removed the striker block, and had to pry the striker from the cruciform sear, something that won't happen without outside input and some method of accessing the striker/sear area. Interesting information, but it ranks in the possible category but not probable category.

Question is not about probable / possible. It is about whether a partially tensioned / DAO design of Glock has any practical safety advantages over fully tensioned / SAO design of other strikers, because it is commonly brought up by Glock proponents. Including myself.

[Mysteryman]

I think you missed his point. For someone worrying about it, if for some reason there is a failure, the striker at partial tension can still ignite a primer and he was able to test this. Both guns have additional safety features meant to mitigate this, but as the last-resort line of defense, the Glock method is also going to allow, at least in some cases [primer hardness, ammo type, etc] a round to be discharged.

I think most here are missing the point. What he demonstrated is 100% not possible under normal use with a properly built and functioning pistol. He removed parts and introduced an outside source (the tool) to FORCE the striker from the cruciform sear. There is no chance of a Glock going off unless the trigger is pulled, or you F*ck with it, remove parts and apply brute force.

Question is not about probable / possible. It is about whether a partially tensioned / DAO design of Glock has any practical safety advantages over fully tensioned / SAO design of other strikers, because it is commonly brought up by Glock proponents. Including myself.

Again, it is not possible for a Glock to discharge when properly assembled with all it's parts under normal conditions. SA striker fired guns are inherently more dangerous. as the POS 320 has demonstrated repeatedly. Albeit the 320 is poorly designed compared to other SA striker guns.

[YVK]

Again, it is not possible for a Glock to discharge when properly assembled with all it's parts under normal conditions.

Again, that's not being asked. I can say it differently. The creep in Glock's trigger pull is related to having to complete the final part of trigger compression by pulling the trigger. If the partial compression / double action design of Glock trigger offers no intrinsic advantages over fully tensioned SAO strikers because it is not possible for a Glock to discharge under normal conditions, why even have a partially tensioned striker.

[Texaspoff]

Again, that's not being asked. I can say it differently. The creep in Glock's trigger pull is related to having to complete the final part of trigger compression by pulling the trigger. If the partial compression / double action design of Glock trigger offers no intrinsic advantages over fully tensioned SAO strikers because it is not possible for a Glock to discharge under normal conditions, why even have a partially tensioned striker.

I believe the partially tensioned striker design was built into the fire control system purposely. The Glock was originally designed for the Austrian Military to replace the P38. I am assuming here, but typically military ammo, especially euro mil stuff has harder primers. Based on that criteria, Glock likely tested the partially tensioned striker against their military ammo, and did not have any discharges. This could likely explain why Glock touted this as a safety feature of their fire control system design. The issue comes in when you have ammo that doesn't use hard primers, IE USA commercial ammo.

Either way, the odds of the Glock striker bypassing all the safeties, causing an discharge are astronomical. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but the odds are decidedly against it.

With that, I am also not going to discount designs that use a fully tensioned striker either, all things being equal.


TXPO

[Mysteryman]

Again, that's not being asked. I can say it differently. The creep in Glock's trigger pull is related to having to complete the final part of trigger compression by pulling the trigger. If the partial compression / double action design of Glock trigger offers no intrinsic advantages over fully tensioned SAO strikers because it is not possible for a Glock to discharge under normal conditions, why even have a partially tensioned striker.

The slight pre tension is from the striker is what keeps the trigger bar/cruciform sear in the forward position. The track the cruciform sear "wings" ride in prevent the striker from separating from the sear when in the forward ( pre tensioned) position. The trigger blade prevents the trigger bar from moving rearward. Between the two designs the trigger bar is locked in a neutral position. The firing/striker block eliminates any chance of uncommanded firing unless the trigger and trigger bar are moved rearward. The advantage is in a system that is designed to remain "safe" until the user decides to fire.

[stormblue]

I’ve wondered about striker fired pistols where the striker block is on the sear end of the striker as opposed to the firing pin end like the Glock. What would happen if the striker broke somewhere just forward of the striker block? Would the remaining striker, that was under tension, have enough mass to ignite a primer?

[jesuvuah]

I’ve wondered about striker fired pistols where the striker block is on the sear end of the striker as opposed to the firing pin end like the Glock. What would happen if the striker broke somewhere just forward of the striker block? Would the remaining striker, that was under tension, have enough mass to ignite a primer?

Yes, but the likelihood of it happening is very slim. I know there is a video of an engineer testing it out on a p365. He tried breaking the rear end of but I think he ended up having to cut it of to complete the test

Soli Deo Gloria

[titsonritz]

Yes, yes there is. Have a read, the good stuff starts around page 10.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...sig-sauer-inc/

Here's some winners for you.

92. On May 19, 2019, the upgraded P320 of Lieutenant Thomas Ahern of the Cambridge,
Massachusetts, SWAT team fired un-commanded inside a SWAT van with six other occupants
while he was working a shift for the annual Mayfair event near Harvard Square. The round
struck a metal plate affixed to his cellphone case, deflected into a SWAT gear bag, and came to
rest in a ballistic helmet, narrowly missing everyone. The casing of the round did not eject.
Lieutenant Ahern is a SIG-certified armorer on the P320 with significant weapons experience. 6

93. On July 23, 2019, an upgraded P320 fired un-commanded on Officer Walter Collette, Jr.
of the Somerville, Massachusetts, police department, hitting him in his leg and causing
substantial injuries to his leg. The next day, an upgraded P320 fired un-commanded on a
Homeland Security Agent at a firing range in the Bronx, New York

94. In August of 2019, a Philadelphia transit officer’s upgraded P320 fired un-commanded
while fully-holstered, nearly striking a bystander in the subway. The incident was captured on
video, it shows an “upgraded” P320 firing without the gun ever being touched and seated inside
its holster. The officer involved, who noted that the round almost hit a bystander, was returned
to duty the next day fully exonerated and with no discipline.

Did you have a read of the Guay Vs SIG deposition? There are 2019 manufactured 320's having UMCOMMANDED discharges in the holster. There is in fact one case from a June 2020. The gun from 2020 may or may not be a pre "upgrade" gun. Either way, SIG failing to call it a RECALL in hopes of saving money and face, is a pathetic move from a company who was/is desperate to secure large contracts at the risk of user safety.

Sig Sauer Found NOT LIABLE In P320 Lawsuit!

[Mysteryman]

Sig Sauer Found NOT LIABLE In P320 Lawsuit!

You think that wasn't a bought a paid for decision?? If so then Biden is a really smart guy and the bestest president ever. SIG being found guilty would have serious repercussions for the gov/military as they use the same POS pistol. Much like the trials being stopped half way through after SIG grossly undercut Glock by around $200 million dollars. But hey, believe what you want.