Sig 320 safety issues

[Texaspoff]

All the amateur drop testing pretty thoroughly discounts rough handling alone as a likely suspect.

And you can’t get around the striker safety unless it failed or the trigger is pulled.

And the striker safety would have to intermittently and infrequently only jamb in off position. Because there should be a pattern of dead trigger or failure to fire if it could jamb in the on position.

That's an excellent point. Lets look at it like this. Let say the 320 has a design flaw that allows for the striker consistently slip off the sear, because of shock, geometry or some other reason. A properly functioning striker block would prevent a discharge in this event.

If this was occurring, then you would have a lot of reports of dead triggers. How many of those reports are we hearing about. Reports of dead triggers would be exponentially higher than uncomanded firing event by averages.

In other words, if strikers were slipping and every time this happened the striker block was failing and allowing the guns to fire without pulling the trigger, then you would have the failure of two separate systems at the same time for every one of these events. What are the odds of that happening?

You have to look at this logically and not emotionally. I know it's difficult when talking about firearms and safety, but think about the numbers here.

TXPO

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I've owned 3 or 4 320's, carried one on duty for a year or two before switching to Glock (better RDS compatibility with Glock). My agency and the neighboring S.O. have tons of guys on 320's as well, and have for many years. Most of my 320 carriers are switching this year to PDP or Glock, but again, because of wanting to get away from the abortion that is the Romeo.

I've been a cop for a decade come January. I'm the lead firearm instructor for my midsized agency, and I also teach a citizen firearms course put on through my PD. I have seen terrible gun handling from the soccer moms in that course, but I have seen equally as bad gun handling from cops and deputies over the last 10 years. Some cops have no business being around a gun. Other cops are USPSA Grand Masters and BJJ Black Belts, just the nature of the profession.

When I hear that it's almost all Police Officers having this problem, I tend to look at it from the view of "those cops are ND'ing and lying to save face". BANG....Uhhh, hey Sarge, it just went off on its own, I swear!

I don't know for sure, but I've seen enough real life ND's of guns, Tasers, and pepperballs to make me very skeptical.

FWIW, I like my P365X, but I think Sig for the most part makes some shitty products. As previously mentioned, we have had nothing but trouble with the Romeo Pro pistol RDS line, so much so that I have something like 12-13 requests on my desk right now for approval to switch to Walther PDP or Glock 17, both with Holosun 509T, from the 320RX and Romeo Pro line.

[Texaspoff]

I've owned 3 or 4 320's, carried one on duty for a year or two before switching to Glock (better RDS compatibility with Glock). My agency and the neighboring S.O. have tons of guys on 320's as well, and have for many years. Most of my 320 carriers are switching this year to PDP or Glock, but again, because of wanting to get away from the abortion that is the Romeo.

I've been a cop for a decade come January. I'm the lead firearm instructor for my midsized agency, and I also teach a citizen firearms course put on through my PD. I have seen terrible gun handling from the soccer moms in that course, but I have seen equally as bad gun handling from cops and deputies over the last 10 years. Some cops have no business being around a gun. Other cops are USPSA Grand Masters and BJJ Black Belts, just the nature of the profession.

When I hear that it's almost all Police Officers having this problem, I tend to look at it from the view of "those cops are ND'ing and lying to save face". BANG....Uhhh, hey Sarge, it just went off on its own, I swear!

I don't know for sure, but I've seen enough real life ND's of guns, Tasers, and pepperballs to make me very skeptical.

FWIW, I like my P365X, but I think Sig for the most part makes some shitty products. As previously mentioned, we have had nothing but trouble with the Romeo Pro pistol RDS line, so much so that I have something like 12-13 requests on my desk right now for approval to switch to Walther PDP or Glock 17, both with Holosun 509T, from the 320RX and Romeo Pro line.

Exactly......




TXPO

[Ron3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODW0F4eXmo

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...t8qBt_97jDkMvo

Y'all have probably seen these.

I don't know what's wrong with these guns. But something is.

Do we have a similar number of M&P's, Glocks, FN'S, etc. with this problem currently?

If "no", it's foolish and / or an emotional decision to carry one of these until we know more.

You carry a gun to increase your safety, right? Why carry a gun that's building a reputation for being unsafe when there are several others without this reputation that can perform without the bad rep?

You like it SO much and are SO certain all of those other people are not as savvy as you you're willing to put your life on the line for it rather than just carry something else?

Foolish.

[Todd.K]

It’s actually easy to explain. After the drop issue people were more likely to just blame the gun rather than admit to an ND or really check for possible obstruction getting into the holster.

That is why some of us are interested in the mechanical possibilities before making a judgment.

I don’t think those that choose to carry something else are wrong to be overly cautious but…

All the reports include a movement that would pull up an obstruction into the trigger. Or even the wrong holster.

No loaded gun in a safe or bedside lock box has gone off.

Beating on a P320 with a mallet for drop testing was a popular pastime, only a specific and reproducible angle caused the pre fix ones to fire.

[Texaspoff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HODW0F4eXmo

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...t8qBt_97jDkMvo

Y'all have probably seen these.

I don't know what's wrong with these guns. But something is.

Do we have a similar number of M&P's, Glocks, FN'S, etc. with this problem currently?

If "no", it's foolish and / or an emotional decision to carry one of these until we know more.

You carry a gun to increase your safety, right? Why carry a gun that's building a reputation for being unsafe when there are several others without this reputation that can perform without the bad rep?

You like it SO much and are SO certain all of those other people are not as savvy as you you're willing to put your life on the line for it rather than just carry something else?

Foolish.

Currently, no, but there was a time that glocks were fighting off the "just fired on its' own" stigma. It was never as wise spread, because information dissemination wasn't nearly as efficient as today. By the time folks heard about the issues, they had been addressed and solved.

I agree with Todd also, these things aren't just going off while sitting somewhere stationary. There is always movement involved and typically movement that could facilitate a trigger pulling event.

i'm still carrying my 320, along with over 80% of the officers in my department. We did some pretty significant testing on ones that we got back when the VUP was in full swing. We even broke a frame on one while beating it up.

Looking at the odds, for each one of these reported ND or fired on its own event, al least two safety features would have to fail at the same time on each one of those pistols. I can understand one, but two on every one?.

Im hoping this latest lawsuit puts all this to rest one way or another, especially to put folks mind at ease.




TXPO

[Slater]

The Canadian military has had at least one unintended discharge incident with the P-320. I think it has since been cleared for use. SIG's response:

"The firearm involved has been extensively tested by SIG SAUER and it has been determined to be safe. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a P320. The use of a modified P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge."

[opngrnd]

Call me crazy, but I hope they find something specific that can be addressed. I'd love for there to be a cut and dry solution to all this.

[Todd.K]

… these things aren't just going off while sitting somewhere stationary. There is always movement involved and typically movement that could facilitate a trigger pulling event.

…We did some pretty significant testing on ones that we got back when the VUP was in full swing. We even broke a frame on one while beating it up.

It is hard to reconcile these two facts without there being an inadvertent trigger pull involved.

[C-grunt]

Im in agreement with the guys that are skeptical of the "guns just going off".

The P320 did have the drop safty issue and guys were replicating it left and right on demand.

Why havent I seen anyone explain to me how the guns are just firing on their own?

As others have said the sear would have to fail along with the striker safety/block to have the gun fire without the trigger pulled. It should be pretty easy to disassemble the firearm and show how and why the striker block failed.