Sig 320 safety issues

[Arik]

It was Sigs striker fired polymer duty gun. Prior to that everything was hammer fired.
Also the whole interchangeability thing. With one trigger pack you have 3 different sizes in up to 3 different calibers (9, 40 357)

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[Bret]

Other than being a Sig, is there something that can said to be a better feature versus the Glock, M&P, etc.? I'm not trying to stir things up. I'm just genuinely trying to figure out why anyone would bother with a pistol that has some sort of reputation for accidental discharges.

[Arik]

Other than being a Sig, is there something that can said to be a better feature versus the Glock, M&P, etc.? I'm not trying to stir things up. I'm just genuinely trying to figure out why anyone would bother with a pistol that has some sort of reputation for accidental discharges.

Other than having that ability to change size and some calibers without having to buy a whole new "firearm" as defined by the ATF.....aside from that... it's just another striker fired polymer gun. They did/do have a better trigger over Glocks, not sure about M&P. However, my experience is limited to being handed one at a gun store to fondle for a minute. I was interested in the X series but never bothered to actually read up if they have the same problems because honestly, I have enough Glocks that don't get used and this would just be money spent to take up shelf space

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[Bret]

I appreciate the explanation. I have a Beretta ARX that has the same ability to change the frames. I bought it because I like Beretta as a brand and it was very inexpensive. While it's 100% reliable, it is wider than my other striker fired polymer pistols and the accuracy is subpar. It doesn't do anything that my Glock, M&P or Walther PPQ can't do better.

[marh415]

Were any of these pistols known to have the manual safety? It seems to be LE that has had the most incidents, and not the M17/18 variant.

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[Pressingonward]

Not sure how similar they are but the 365 never had the AD issues. The very first gen had dead triggers but no ADs. At least not to my knowledge. Not that I'm some kind of an expert but in the 7 or so years it's been out I never once stumbled on a topic about 365 AD

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Thank you, appreciate the response.

[Mysteryman]

Putting the 320's potential AD issue aside, I'm still trying to figure out what the selling point of this pistol is. What does it potentially provide that other more proven models don't?

Nothing, absolutely nothing relevant. The whole interchangeability thing is stupid. You need a new frame and complete top end for it to work. You might as well buy another gun. Better yet, buy the right gun to start with. If a compact does the job, why would you buy a full size??

It was Sigs striker fired polymer duty gun. Prior to that everything was hammer fired.
Also the whole interchangeability thing. With one trigger pack you have 3 different sizes in up to 3 different calibers (9, 40 357)

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Other than having that ability to change size and some calibers without having to buy a whole new "firearm" as defined by the ATF.....aside from that... it's just another striker fired polymer gun. They did/do have a better trigger over Glocks, not sure about M&P. However, my experience is limited to being handed one at a gun store to fondle for a minute. I was interested in the X series but never bothered to actually read up if they have the same problems because honestly, I have enough Glocks that don't get used and this would just be money spent to take up shelf space

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As above. Pointless system.

Were any of these pistols known to have the manual safety? It seems to be LE that has had the most incidents, and not the M17/18 variant.

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A manual safety on a pistol is plain stupid, has been for decades. Even with a manual safety, what happens when that safety is off and the gun is dropped, or happens to get holstered?

[Arik]

Nothing, absolutely nothing relevant. The whole interchangeability thing is stupid. You need a new frame and complete top end for it to work. You might as well buy another gun. Better yet, buy the right gun to start with. If a compact does the job, why would you buy a full size??

Some people didn't want to do the extra paperwork, background check and tax.

Not everyone can be as one and done as you can I guess.

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[HCM]

When the SIG p320 first came out i thought it was the answer to my prayers - a true striker fired Sig. Having owned and carried (German frame etc) 220's and 226's, love them, they are stupid accurate and reliable, making me a true believer.
But with the (then) more recent 'Sig Exeter' shenanigans they had me a bit on the fence. Decided to hold off.

Started reading about safety issues, recalls, off and on, now this.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3d4...lawsuit-police
This is clearly coming from reliable, no agenda sources. Making me want to avoid this like the plague.

Truth be told this is one of my 'weird dream' fears - besides my pistol not firing, bullets coming out cartoonishly sloooooooow - there's also this real life bug in the back of my head of it firing, while holstered, basically spontaneously.

It also makes me wonder about their other latest greatest offering - the 365.
While most every design has had its teething issues (example M&P9 accuracy....), safety usually hasn't been one.
Given this information from where I'm sitting there's too many other good quality utterly safe and reliable pistols out there for the 320 to even be an acceptable option/consideration.
So why do people keep purchasing and departments considering this platform?
And why cant Sig put this to bed. There CLEARLY is a major problem.

Unfortunately nuance and the internet don’t mix.

Up front there are real safety issues with the original P320 design and some of the “upgraded” original P320s.

There are also real issues with how sig handled and refused to acknowledge those problems.

That said, there are also a lot of bullshit, lies, half truths and people trying to cash in on the P320 Drama.

Take the Vice news article you linked: I don’t know the back story on all the incidents cited in the article but I do know two of them are bullshit.

The citation about a Pennsylvania State Police Instructor killing another Trooper by accident with a SIG pistol happened BUT THE PISTOL WAS A DA/SA SIG P227. NOT A P320.

The ICE Officer (he’s not an agent) suing SIG involved an agency issued gun and occurred during agency training outdoors in winter conditions and was witnessed. The officer drew the gun from a personally owned SERPA holster and put his finger on/pulled the trigger.

DHS /ICE issues an agency specific SKU /p320 model. I am personally aware that version of the 320 is drop safe. The gun from the incident has been examined and there is NO mechanical failure or defect in that particular P320. The PA ICE shooting was a classic SERPA leg shot. Whether driven by ego or a desire to cash in, that particular lawsuit is BS.

The agency previously issued P229 DAKs. Many agencies have issued the P320 because they are are brand loyal to SIG so they previously issued DA, DAK/DAO pistols with longer heavier trigger pulls. It’s common for agencies transitioning from DA or DAO pistols to striker fired pistols to deer an initial increase in negligent discharges as officers used to more forgiving triggers adjust to the new guns. LASD experienced a similar increase when they transitioned from Beretta 92s to S&W M&Ps.

That doesn’t mean there are no problems with P320s. I’m aware of six true Accidental / mechanical discharges with original design P320s and one with an original 320 that was sent in but not properly upgraded.

I believe the current production P320s and the P365 series are mechanically safe as a fully cocked striker gun can be though I probably wouldn’t buy a used or pre 2019 production P320.

Personally I think SIG’s lack of integrity in acknowledging the problem is a bigger issue than the original mechanical design issue.

[HCM]

Were any of these pistols known to have the manual safety? It seems to be LE that has had the most incidents, and not the M17/18 variant.

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The manual safety on the 320 only blocks the trigger bar not the striker so the issues with the original P320 design effect the manual safety models.