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Thread: Beretta 1301 With Crom and RMR: Patterning Federal Flite Control and Slugs

  1. #11
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    I will start a new thread if there is not a simple answer to this. I see a lot of talk of reduced recoil and very tight buckshot patterning. If extra tight patterns are desired why not use slugs, or a rifle? If full power 12 gauge shells are undesirable why not use a 20 gauge, or a gun modified for 12ga mini shells for extra capacity? I am not a shotgunner and I am not questioning the choices of those who are. I just want to understand.

  2. #12
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    I think most folks on here have chosen the m4 to rule the self defense scenario. Including I would speculate the OP. Its just nice to practice with low recoil beat down loads, but for the real deal FULL POWERED FLIGHT CONTROL fits the bill. And a shotgun is cool as fck and its payload is a joy to watch on target. The most gratifying boom boom.

    I've always said my sons youth (when he was a yut th) 20 guage shotgun was small and easy to maneuver and would do the trick. No reason not to use one but the 12 is obviously more killing power.

    That's my take on your question, YMMV.

    PB
    Last edited by Pappabear; 09-15-21 at 13:34.
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    My only critique is that you should fire at least 5 shot groups, better yet 10, to get an idea of what's actually going on. I have ALSO discovered that shotguns need muscle. You do not gently squeeze the trigger while stabilizing the gun. You deliberately pull the trigger while holding the gun like you're trying to give a bobcat a pill. This is because shotguns have low velocity ammunition, and long (relatively) barrels. They will actually move about 1/2" during the time the slug is in the barrel, under recoil. Muscle the gun hard, and it will be more consistent and shoot tighter groups by a notable amount. This is part of why I prefer to zero a shotgun while standing, holding it aggressively, at 50 yards. This will allow the most consistent compromise for a zero that will be as close as possible across all shooting positions.
    You may do this, maybe not, but I pin the trigger back. It seems to give me those extra milliseconds needed for the slug or BS to clear the barrel. This has been very helpful for me on something like slugs on steel at 50 yds. offhand.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    My only critique is that you should fire at least 5 shot groups, better yet 10, to get an idea of what's actually going on. I have ALSO discovered that shotguns need muscle. You do not gently squeeze the trigger while stabilizing the gun. You deliberately pull the trigger while holding the gun like you're trying to give a bobcat a pill. This is because shotguns have low velocity ammunition, and long (relatively) barrels. They will actually move about 1/2" during the time the slug is in the barrel, under recoil. Muscle the gun hard, and it will be more consistent and shoot tighter groups by a notable amount. This is part of why I prefer to zero a shotgun while standing, holding it aggressively, at 50 yards. This will allow the most consistent compromise for a zero that will be as close as possible across all shooting positions.
    That's new advice to me, will try, thanks!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple View Post
    I will start a new thread if there is not a simple answer to this. I see a lot of talk of reduced recoil and very tight buckshot patterning. If extra tight patterns are desired why not use slugs, or a rifle? If full power 12 gauge shells are undesirable why not use a 20 gauge, or a gun modified for 12ga mini shells for extra capacity? I am not a shotgunner and I am not questioning the choices of those who are. I just want to understand.
    It's a good question.

    The "problem" with standard shells is the pellets can strike less vital, peripheral areas of the target or miss completely beyond about 15 yds.

    IMO that performance is fine for in the home self defense but some may disagree.

    Firing at ranges beyond that starts getting irresponsible when you know some of your pellets will miss. If your backstop is a feild or woods or something very solid fine but if not or unknown you could be liable in many ways for those stray pellets.

    Tight patterns help reduce this.

    Slugs work to, you're right. But then you have a hard kicking not very accurate "rifle". May as well use an actual rifle. "Just because you can do a thing..."

    I like using low-recoil slugs for shotgun practice because I can really see the center of where I aimed and they tear up targets much less.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappabear View Post
    I think most folks on here have chosen the m4 to rule the self defense scenario. Including I would speculate the OP. Its just nice to practice with low recoil beat down loads, but for the real deal FULL POWERED FLIGHT CONTROL fits the bill. And a shotgun is cool as fck and its payload is a joy to watch on target. The most gratifying boom boom.

    I've always said my sons youth (when he was a yut th) 20 guage shotgun was small and easy to maneuver and would do the trick. No reason not to use one but the 12 is obviously more killing power.

    That's my take on your question, YMMV.

    PB
    I have chronographed LE132 and LE127 ammunition. There is a 156fps difference between these two loadings, using my 14" Benelli. Using my 18.5" pump benelli, the difference between them is 136fps. The 18.5" barrel had an advantage of 17fps using the full-power loading, and 37fps using the low recoil loading (one would think it backward, but it wasn't so).

    The difference between low recoil, and full power 00 in these loadings, is roughly equivalent to 20 yards distance traveled, so as pellets striking a target at 3 yards from the reduced recoil are similar to those striking at 23 yards, from the full power loading.

    The flash and noise, are significantly different, with the low recoil ammunition producing roughly 1/3 as much flash, which I value, as I use my shotgun at night under i2.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple View Post
    I will start a new thread if there is not a simple answer to this. I see a lot of talk of reduced recoil and very tight buckshot patterning. If extra tight patterns are desired why not use slugs, or a rifle? If full power 12 gauge shells are undesirable why not use a 20 gauge, or a gun modified for 12ga mini shells for extra capacity? I am not a shotgunner and I am not questioning the choices of those who are. I just want to understand.
    It's pretty simple, my preference is; 9- .30 cal. pellets in Heart Lung area (Federal Flight Control) at 20 yds., vs, 3 or 4 pellets in Heart Lung area, 2 misses on target and 3 peripheral hits (other/"bargain" 00 Buck) at 20 yds.
    A true "Gun Guy" (or gal) should have familiarity and a modicum of proficiency with most all firearms platforms.

  8. #18
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    I really liked the flash of the Hebrew flag.

    Nice shotgun, I'm thinking about picking one up to compliment my M4. I have used Beretta's for hunting for a very long time and they are solid guns. I reached out to Todd at FFT and he is planning to support the 1301 which will be good for everyone.

    Which RMR is that and how large is that 6.5 MOA dot at 50 yards? (Yes, I know, 6.5 MOA for the smart one's here.) How much of the paper plate does it cover at 50?

    I've stuck with either 1 or 2 MOA and have been scared the dot would be too large at 6.5.......

    I put an RMR on my M4 and pulled it in favor of a larger red dot as pictured below. The RMR just seemed too tiny for such a large gun.

    Keep making the videos, they are enjoyable. BTW Ford for the win.

    Last edited by HKGuns; 09-17-21 at 08:21.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    It's pretty simple, my preference is; 9- .30 cal. pellets in Heart Lung area (Federal Flight Control) at 20 yds., vs, 3 or 4 pellets in Heart Lung area, 2 misses on target and 3 peripheral hits (other/"bargain" 00 Buck) at 20 yds.
    This is more effective than a slug?

  10. #20
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    Certainly not, in terms of penetration and single projectile energy on target.

    What it is? More forgiving of marginal shot placement.

    And my quote was in reference to "Bargain" 00 Buck, not slugs.
    A true "Gun Guy" (or gal) should have familiarity and a modicum of proficiency with most all firearms platforms.

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