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Thread: Blade Runner - What am I Missing?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    And there is tons of supporting evidence that The Shining was an apology by Kubrick for faking the moon landing. But just because you can read this stuff into a film doesn't mean it was actually there.

    Also more than a few guys at JPL were followers of Crowley. Does that mean the actual moon landing was a illuminati / sacred jewel mission? I actually know more than a little about Crowley, Blavatski and others, I just chose to ignore your referenced to this point rather than legitimize the ideas by discussing them.

    We aren't geing duped by Hollywood, most of us see the Easter eggs. It hasn't tricked us into joining his mish / mash of occult ideas wrapped up into the clumsy religion of Thelema.
    Sure, I’m not sure what your point is, but the references are real.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Business_Casual View Post
    Sure, I’m not sure what your point is, but the references are real.
    I guess my point is they don't matter. They have less weight than references to the Greek gods in The Iliad. Mysticism, especially Thelema is as dead and irrelevant as ideas of flat earth or moon deniers.

    If the film 2001 was supposed to forward any movement related to mysticism, it failed and in a few generations 2001 will be less important to film history than Metropolis or Nosferatu. It will be an odd footnote, far less insightful than say "World on a Wire" and with less cultural impact than Star Wars.

    And more to the point, the references are interpretable. When you have a film with as much gobblygook as Kubrick's 2001 you can read just about anything into it.

    Try this. Full Metal Jacket was a Christian parable. Sgt. Hartman was Jesus who was killed by the ignorant (Pyle as the Romans) so that his faithful (the platoon) could survive their ordeal. If inclined I could probably provide a few dozen supporting scenes and ideas. Now prove I'm wrong. And even if it turns out that I'm accidentally correct...who cares?
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by titsonritz View Post
    They f'ed the one up, what a disappointment. It should have been great.
    What should have been the crown jewel in the Michael Mann filmography might have actually been his worst film. Horrible casting, every single person was wrong. Retread of a few Miami Vice episodes (mostly Smuggler's Blues) but not executed as well. The only thing that wasn't terrible was the new theme, it was literally the only thing they got right.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    What should have been the crown jewel in the Michael Mann filmography might have actually been his worst film. Horrible casting, every single person was wrong. Retread of a few Miami Vice episodes (mostly Smuggler's Blues) but not executed as well. The only thing that wasn't terrible was the new theme, it was literally the only thing they got right.
    I see your Miami Vice, and raise you Band Of The Hand as his worst film.

    I am fairly certain that it was meant to be a TV series in the vein of 21 Jump Street. But it was so badly written as a television pilot, no one would green light it, which says a lot with him having recently ended Miami Vice.


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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbjh View Post
    I see your Miami Vice, and raise you Band Of The Hand as his worst film.

    I am fairly certain that it was meant to be a TV series in the vein of 21 Jump Street. But it was so badly written as a television pilot, no one would green light it, which says a lot with him having recently ended Miami Vice.


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    Terrible for sure. But Band of the Hand was a Michael Mann Production company, wasn't really a Michael Mann film. Certainly wasn't directed by Michael Mann. Mann wasn't even the executive producer like he was with "Crime Story" and "Miami Vice." But the film, Miami Vice, that was a Michael Mann film which was written, directed and produced by Mann.

    Now he's had a few stinkers, including L.A. Takedown which was a made for TV first attempt at "Heat." Thankfully he was able to build on that and refined it into what might be his masterpiece, "Heat."
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Terrible for sure. But Band of the Hand was a Michael Mann Production company, wasn't really a Michael Mann film. Certainly wasn't directed by Michael Mann. Mann wasn't even the executive producer like he was with "Crime Story" and "Miami Vice." But the film, Miami Vice, that was a Michael Mann film which was written, directed and produced by Mann.

    Now he's had a few stinkers, including L.A. Takedown which was a made for TV first attempt at "Heat." Thankfully he was able to build on that and refined it into what might be his masterpiece, "Heat."
    Not directed by, but with a HEAVY hand on it, to the point that I consider it a Mann film. Starsky did what he could (not the greatest director - worked around him years later, and he hadn’t really expanded his repertoire, unfortunately).

    I was in the room when one of the editors let it be known he was leaving BotH to do another show. It wasn’t PMG who called, but Mann’s office. With Mann yelling in the background “you’ll never work in this town again!” That was funny, because the editor’s retort was “why don’t you come down here and say that to my face?” He didn’t like most producers, and had almost no qualms about taking issues to the parking lot. The stammering from Mann’s assistant over the phone was hilarious. I don’t think anyone had Mann to pound sand in a long time, so no one knew how to respond.


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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbjh View Post
    Not directed by, but with a HEAVY hand on it, to the point that I consider it a Mann film. Starsky did what he could (not the greatest director - worked around him years later, and he hadn’t really expanded his repertoire, unfortunately).

    I was in the room when one of the editors let it be known he was leaving BotH to do another show. It wasn’t PMG who called, but Mann’s office. With Mann yelling in the background “you’ll never work in this town again!” That was funny, because the editor’s retort was “why don’t you come down here and say that to my face?” He didn’t like most producers, and had almost no qualms about taking issues to the parking lot. The stammering from Mann’s assistant over the phone was hilarious. I don’t think anyone had Mann to pound sand in a long time, so no one knew how to respond.


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    So what am I missing. Admittedly I barely remember this one except it being pretty bad.

    Directed by Paul Michael Glaser
    Written by Leo Garen
    Jack Baran
    Produced by Michael Rauch

    Those are your problems right there. Mann was one of two production companies which means they basically put up the cash.

    Production
    companies

    Delph V Productions
    Michael Mann Productions

    I'd be willing to be the big reason it sucked is because Paul Michael Glaser directed it.

    But again, don't think I'm a huge fanboy who see's no wrong. LA Takedown was pretty bad. Also once he started dropping powerhouse films, people began to see his earlier films as more brilliant than they actually were.

    I appreciate the gun handling in Thief, but it wasn't a brilliant film. It was good, not brilliant. Manhunter? Didn't even know it existed until I decided to look into earlier Mann films and it was ok, but Silence of the Lambs still blew it away. Everyone loved Last of the Mohican's and it's probably a great film, but it personally didn't move me. Heat (besides the shows like Miami Vice) put Mann on the map. That is when I first took notice of his films.

    I dug most of his tv shows from Miami Vice, Crime Story and even Vega$. Police Woman, Police Story and Starsky and Hutch of course kicked retro ass but I had no idea Mann was involved in any of those.

    Never saw Ali, couldn't buy Will Smith in the role and mostly just didn't care. Collateral was a good film, not perfect and far from brilliant but I enjoy it. Public Enemies is the only other Mann film to rival Heat, he really was in his element and got to do all the landscapes and lightscapes that he is famous for and quite honestly light and reflected light is almost his signature. Which is a shame because again Miami is basically neon city and he could have gone crazy if he could have gotten his act together.

    But actors hurt it more than anything, they all were terrible. Colin Farrel is awful in almost everything he does. Jamie Fox is talented but I didn't really buy him as a Miami vice cop. I think Denzel could have been a very credible Tubbs but then you'd need to find a serious actor for Sonny Crockett that wouldn't be constantly overshadowed by Denzel. Ghetto Trudy and Gina were the worst, they could have gone with almost any other actresses and done better. Mann should have also written a new storyline relevant to the times, he tried but seriously aryan bikers? Give me a F'ing break. Ironically Depp "might" have been able to pull off Sonny Crockett.

    Even worse was many of the firearm choices which classically is his strong suit. They had a guy on a Barrett .50 doing Carlos Hathcock shit and it was ridiculous.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I guess my point is they don't matter. They have less weight than references to the Greek gods in The Iliad. Mysticism, especially Thelema is as dead and irrelevant as ideas of flat earth or moon deniers.

    If the film 2001 was supposed to forward any movement related to mysticism, it failed and in a few generations 2001 will be less important to film history than Metropolis or Nosferatu. It will be an odd footnote, far less insightful than say "World on a Wire" and with less cultural impact than Star Wars.

    And more to the point, the references are interpretable. When you have a film with as much gobblygook as Kubrick's 2001 you can read just about anything into it.

    Try this. Full Metal Jacket was a Christian parable. Sgt. Hartman was Jesus who was killed by the ignorant (Pyle as the Romans) so that his faithful (the platoon) could survive their ordeal. If inclined I could probably provide a few dozen supporting scenes and ideas. Now prove I'm wrong. And even if it turns out that I'm accidentally correct...who cares?
    Full Metal Jacket is about the alchemical transformation of man. It even has the Joker from Tarot in it. I guess you believe all those people walking around Hollywood wearing red bracelets are just kidding. Eyes wide shut, my friend…

  9. #59
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    Blade Runner was weird and good. Excellent for its time especially with its use of real costumes and not much CGI.

    I liked Total Recall better despite it using more CGI. And I liked Running Man and The Fifth Element even better, both of those using costumes and not much CGI.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”
    - Mark Twain

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Business_Casual View Post
    Full Metal Jacket is about the alchemical transformation of man. It even has the Joker from Tarot in it. I guess you believe all those people walking around Hollywood wearing red bracelets are just kidding. Eyes wide shut, my friend…
    Just give them the "evil eye" and they will back down. But Gunny was Jesus.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

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