Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 72

Thread: Studies showing piston Ar's more reliable?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,120
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Studies showing piston Ar's more reliable?

    Complete ignorance here- are there any?

    I just don't understand the fascination with a more complex, heavier system of operation. Especially since there are about 10 different versions- which get discontinued etc....Good luck find parts for that in 10 years. It's never made any sense to me. DI works very well. The only reason I could think of to do anything else would be some real evidence that somehow piston guns are more reliable, but I'm not aware of any real studies that show that.
    Last edited by Esq.; 10-01-21 at 10:27.
    The truth can only offend those who live a lie.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    186
    Feedback Score
    0
    DI in a quality gun has always been a proven design. I donít understand the fascination with piston driven ARs either. I get what they are trying to say about less blowback into the action but a quality DI gun thatís well maintained (as any serious defensive gun should be) is the way to go in my humble opinion.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Phoenix, Az
    Posts
    3,658
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I wanna say there was a study done around the time of the SCAR program that includes the HK416. So I think there is info regarding it. However that's more just a study of the 416 vs the M16/M4 and not a piston vs DI thing.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    186
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    I wanna say there was a study done around the time of the SCAR program that includes the HK416. So I think there is info regarding it. However that's more just a study of the 416 vs the M16/M4 and not a piston vs DI thing.
    Iíve always just owned DI guns, shot them a ton but never in any harsh environments if you will. I could see the argument for something that be able to run through dirty/harsh environments on an autoloading firearm. The classic scenario I think of when I hear about complaints about DI guns not running when in dirty/harsh environments is the M4 out in the sandbox but I donít know how well some of those rifles were maintained either but then again I was never there so thatís just a thought. One thing Iím curious about on a piston driven platform since Iíve never owned a piston driven AR is how much carbon buildup actually builds up in the piston and how often that has to be cleaned/maintained?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    612
    Feedback Score
    49 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    I wanna say there was a study done around the time of the SCAR program that includes the HK416. So I think there is info regarding it. However that's more just a study of the 416 vs the M16/M4 and not a piston vs DI thing.
    Probably thinking about the "dust tests"
    https://www.military.com/defensetech...e-in-dust-test

    I think the only AR-pattern op rod that has a case for it is the 416 and most of that context is in relationship to the 10.4" DI variants of the day. And as some may remember, the HK was not without some teething/production issues and has enjoyed several production improvements along the way.
    In the context of today's knowledge, it has been surmised by industry types that perhaps a significant portion of the HK's success may not be due to the op rod but just in the use of different materials, alloys and their otherwise German approach to the AR platform...

    I think one is hard-pressed to find a simple cut-and-dry answer given that context and cost are always going to be a factor. I do believe that in certain roles, configurations and environments, there are advantages to the 416 op rod IF one insists on having an AR pattern gun.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,622
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    I don't know of any studies (maybe one related to the HK piston AR's??), but I remember reading in some gun rags of the late 70's and 80's how the heavier and cleaner BCG of the AK made them SO much more reliable than the unreliable and whispy M16. So the idea of converting AR's to pistons I believe started there. The total piece of junk "RHINO" system of the day was the first attempt at a piston conversion that I'm aware of. I guess some people through the decades just couldn't let the idea go.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    240
    Feedback Score
    0
    If you run suppressed there is definitely a case to be made that they run cleaner than a DI gun. Also less gas to the face. I wanted a PWS in the worst way until I picked one up and the added weight was noticeable. It's hard to argue with the design. A couple billion AKs are still out there running strong.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    612
    Feedback Score
    49 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    I don't know of any studies (maybe one related to the HK piston AR's??), but I remember reading in some gun rags of the late 70's and 80's how the heavier and cleaner BCG of the AK made them SO much more reliable than the unreliable and whispy M16. So the idea of converting AR's to pistons I believe started there. The total piece of junk "RHINO" system of the day was the first attempt at a piston conversion that I'm aware of. I guess some people through the decades just couldn't let the idea go.
    Certainly, there was no bias or propaganda from them days...no sir. It was well into the 90's and 2000's that most folks still believed the AR pattern was crap and would seize up at the drop of a hat and the AK was an indestructible force of nature that an untrained chimp could operate in the harshest climates that would kill mortal man.
    Long before the days of the reality: "The AR is more reliable that it gets credit for, and the AK is more accurate than it gets credit for".

    All that being said, I'm not so sure the AR18 pattern stuff isn't going to be the best vehicle for a small-frame semi-auto carbine once it gets its due development time (if that ever happens given the state of things)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    11,009
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    The largest problem is that reports are often setup to reveal the info the researcher wants. You want DI to win, ok, easy. You want piston to win? Ok, easy.

    If you want to see ugly back door politics and money at play, dig into weapon testing and / or supplying military arms.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Wisco
    Posts
    1,297
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    If you want to see ugly back door politics and money at play, dig into weapon testing and / or supplying military arms.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars

    I still like Piston for suppression and full auto fire, other than that, I don't see a point.
    Last edited by Hank6046; 10-01-21 at 14:26. Reason: Clarification
    I perfer black coffee in the morning, bourbon in evenings and spending money on sh*t I probably don't need.

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •