MK18 Vs. Geissele Super Duty 10.5

[HKGuns]

I don't know how to tell you this, but they've offered one for years.

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Colt-M...e-p/cr6933.htm

Well you just did and I appear to be wrong on that point. I’m actually glad they have one.

Didn’t see that model on the Colt website.

[RHINOWSO]

[RHINOWSO]

Didn’t see that model on the Colt website.

Colt's website and marketing folks leave a lot to be desired.

[okie]

Why would I buy something, then go through the hassle and expense of sending it in to be chopped when I can simply buy one of the two, very good products, covered in this thread?

If Colt offered a MK18 product that would be different, but they don’t.

In fact, I don’t see any SBR offerings from Colt, which could be an entirely different thread.

Colt does in fact sell a Mk18 upper, but it's expensive, and functionally no different from what I'm suggesting. My whole point is that for roughly a grand you can have arguably the best Mk18 ever made, and all you gotta do is send the upper to ADCO (or Class III machining if you don't like them, whatever).

Like I keep saying, I'm just trying to give OP or anyone else in the market an FYI how they can get a superior rifle for DPMS prices. I'm not sure where the confusion is.

This is all cute if you're trying to build a clone. However, to suggest that the TDP can't be improved upon by other manufacturers is just silly.

And this is coming from a Colt fan...

Never once did I say the TDP can't be improved upon. What I keep saying is manufacturers have no financial incentive to do so, unless they're fulfilling government contracts.

Are there companies that have improved upon it? Sure, KAC obviously.

Have other companies adopted their own quality control measures that accomplish roughly milspec quality? I mean yea, probably. But again, do you want to pay 1500 or under a grand? And again, you simply have no way of really knowing what the actual effectiveness of their quality control measures are because the guns for the most part simply do not get shot. Period. Maybe one out of ten thousand guns they produce will see more than a few hundred rounds. Surely you understand the significance of sample size?

People in this thread have accused me of fanboyism multiple times. Choosing the superior product for less money isn't fanboyism. It's just being a smart shopper. If you ask me, choosing the arguably inferior product at double the cost is the fanboyism.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

What you get with a Colt upper is a quality and dependable barrel and BCG that will last a long time. It's 2021 though, almost 2022 in fact, and there are several companies where you can get a quality barrel and BCG that will last a long time. If you feel the need to stick with Colt because of the TDP, or whatever it is you think the TDP is or isn't, cool, but you don't have to. That's all I'm sayin.

There's nothing really wrong with sticking with Colt and the TDP either. It will serve you well.

We all have our preferences and sometimes it's just a matter of what we're used to.

For example, I'm not a fan of the low profile gas blocks held on with set screws and Loctite, even on a dimpled barrel. I know that there are millions of them out there and you rarely hear of them moving unless Palmetto State Armory built the upper. But, it's just something I don't like. So, I buy barrels with a drilled and taper pinned FSB and I shave them down. Peace of mind.

[HKGuns]

Okie, for the record, I have not accused you of being a fan boi, but even if you were, it’s a free country, so rock it.

[sidewaysil80]

Colt does in fact sell a Mk18 upper, but it's expensive, and functionally no different from what I'm suggesting. My whole point is that for roughly a grand you can have arguably the best Mk18 ever made, and all you gotta do is send the upper to ADCO (or Class III machining if you don't like them, whatever).

Like I keep saying, I'm just trying to give OP or anyone else in the market an FYI how they can get a superior rifle for DPMS prices. I'm not sure where the confusion is.



Never once did I say the TDP can't be improved upon. What I keep saying is manufacturers have no financial incentive to do so, unless they're fulfilling government contracts.

Are there companies that have improved upon it? Sure, KAC obviously.

Have other companies adopted their own quality control measures that accomplish roughly milspec quality? I mean yea, probably. But again, do you want to pay 1500 or under a grand? And again, you simply have no way of really knowing what the actual effectiveness of their quality control measures are because the guns for the most part simply do not get shot. Period. Maybe one out of ten thousand guns they produce will see more than a few hundred rounds. Surely you understand the significance of sample size?

People in this thread have accused me of fanboyism multiple times. Choosing the superior product for less money isn't fanboyism. It's just being a smart shopper. If you ask me, choosing the arguably inferior product at double the cost is the fanboyism.

Bro…gas port diameter and barrel length are all that matter in the mk18. To say a Colt mk18 is superior to Geissele is a subjective statement. There is no empirical data to back that statement up, it’s based on emotion. Furthermore, it would fail to take into consideration the enhancements/upgrades that come on the Geissele that are not found on the colt.

[okie]

Bro…gas port diameter and barrel length are all that matter in the mk18. To say a Colt mk18 is superior to Geissele is a subjective statement. There is no empirical data to back that statement up, it’s based on emotion. Furthermore, it would fail to take into consideration the enhancements/upgrades that come on the Geissele that are not found on the colt.

I never said Colt is superior to Geissele. I do contend that the Mk18 is superior to the URG in all forms because of issues with the URG rails, but that's not the same thing.

What I told OP is that if he's going to go the Mk18 route, that modding a Colt into a CQBR upper (aka Mk18) is both the superior and more cost effective way to achieve that end, vs. buying a DD clone off the shelf. Never said anything about Geissele. I don't think Geissele even has a Mk18 offering.

It's also not accurate at all to say that the only thing that matters in a Mk18 is the length and gas port size. What matters most is the bolt. AR bolts were not designed for guns this short. When the Mk18 went into widespread service they had to modify the TDP to improve bolt life. All we really know is rumors, but something was changed that drastically improved bolt life across the board, and those were the same bolts that ended up in the 6920s because they were being pulled from the same bins, and hypothetically could have just as easily ended up in an M4 or Mk18. So if I'm going to have any SBR, regardless of barrel length, that's the bolt I want in it. If not that, then an LMT enhanced or KAC E3 (a byproduct of the Mk18, BTW, and what would have ended up being used in them had Colt not come up with whatever secret sauce they did at the 11th hour).

Are you suggesting that a KAC RAS holds zero (for an IR laser) better than a DD RISII?

That I do not know. Crane tested the RAS and found it to hold zero extremely well after being knocked around. I can't remember if they tested the RISII or not at that time. What it comes down to for me though is weight. The RAS is only negligibly heavier than the stock CAR handguards, and the RISII is 1.5 pounds or something insane like that. I mean, it's one thing if you're putting that on an SPR, but on a 10 incher it's just dead weight, especially on a gun dedicated to CQB that's going to be shot offhand. An additional pound out there on the barrel is pretty serious weight. With the laser aimer and light, the mod 0 is PLENTY heavy as it is.

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

I never said Colt is superior to Geissele. I do contend that the Mk18 is superior to the URG in all forms because of issues with the URG rails, but that's not the same thing.

What I told OP is that if he's going to go the Mk18 route, that modding a Colt into a CQBR upper (aka Mk18) is both the superior and more cost effective way to achieve that end, vs. buying a DD clone off the shelf. Never said anything about Geissele. I don't think Geissele even has a Mk18 offering.

It's also not accurate at all to say that the only thing that matters in a Mk18 is the length and gas port size. What matters most is the bolt. AR bolts were not designed for guns this short. When the Mk18 went into widespread service they had to modify the TDP to improve bolt life. All we really know is rumors, but something was changed that drastically improved bolt life across the board, and those were the same bolts that ended up in the 6920s because they were being pulled from the same bins, and hypothetically could have just as easily ended up in an M4 or Mk18. So if I'm going to have any SBR, regardless of barrel length, that's the bolt I want in it. If not that, then an LMT enhanced or KAC E3 (a byproduct of the Mk18, BTW, and what would have ended up being used in them had Colt not come up with whatever secret sauce they did at the 11th hour).



That I do not know. Crane tested the RAS and found it to hold zero extremely well after being knocked around. I can't remember if they tested the RISII or not at that time. What it comes down to for me though is weight. The RAS is only negligibly heavier than the stock CAR handguards, and the RISII is 1.5 pounds or something insane like that. I mean, it's one thing if you're putting that on an SPR, but on a 10 incher it's just dead weight, especially on a gun dedicated to CQB that's going to be shot offhand. An additional pound out there on the barrel is pretty serious weight. With the laser aimer and light, the mod 0 is PLENTY heavy as it is.

Bro, a quick Google search would have saved you the embarrassment from stating the RIS II weighs 1.5 pounds. It's 14 oz.

[scooter22]

... KAC E3 (a byproduct of the Mk18, BTW, and what would have ended up being used in them had Colt not come up with whatever secret sauce they did at the 11th hour)...

Can you elaborate more on this statement?