MK18 Vs. Geissele Super Duty 10.5

[okie]

The URG-I upper as supplied to USASOC uses Daniel Defense barrels, though. And exactly what reason does SOCOM go to Colt for other parts?

Also, it's my understanding that the Block II CQBR URGs utilized FN barrels.

The DD being supplied to the government is milspec and can't be sold outside contracts. Colt owns the milspec and can therefore do what no other manufacturer can. If you want actual milspec bolts and barrels you gotta buy it from Colt.

[okie]

Yeah they definitely don’t so…

Also, more often than not, that’s a good reason to go the opposite route. Even though socom is better than big army.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Colt literally made the Mk18 viable. If not for Colt, the Mk18 would be using a non standard bolt like the E3 or something similar, at quadruple the cost.

Now the government has its pick of suppliers for TDP parts, but we don't. For us, it's Colt or nothing. Sucks but it's their IP so they call the shots.

[Wake27]

The DD being supplied to the government is milspec and can't be sold outside contracts. Colt owns the milspec and can therefore do what no other manufacturer can. If you want actual milspec bolts and barrels you gotta buy it from Colt.

Colt literally made the Mk18 viable. If not for Colt, the Mk18 would be using a non standard bolt like the E3 or something similar, at quadruple the cost.

Now the government has its pick of suppliers for TDP parts, but we don't. For us, it's Colt or nothing. Sucks but it's their IP so they call the shots.

Ok but none of that actually matters. This isn’t 2005 where only one or two brands could get it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[georgeib]

Same reasons why SOCOM goes to Colt for bolts and barrels instead of DD.

Your Colt fanboyism is really something dude.

[Defaultmp3]

The DD being supplied to the government is milspec and can't be sold outside contracts. Colt owns the milspec and can therefore do what no other manufacturer can. If you want actual milspec bolts and barrels you gotta buy it from Colt.

Umm, isn't the Daniel Defense barrel being used by the URG-I a CHF midlength barrel? AFAIK, Colt has never produced any CHF barrels in the USA. Also, I'm pretty sure that barrel can be bought like normal, under the SKU# 07-077-07308 (https://danieldefense.com/14-5-5-56m...v-profile.html with the low-profile gas block option).

[El Vaquero]

Colt literally made the Mk18 viable. If not for Colt, the Mk18 would be using a non standard bolt like the E3 or something similar, at quadruple the cost.

Now the government has its pick of suppliers for TDP parts, but we don't. For us, it's Colt or nothing. Sucks but it's their IP so they call the shots.

Crane and LMT made the Mk 18 viable. They used Colt parts to do it.

Go with what floats your boat. Me, I’d go with DD or Colt. Part of getting a Mk 18 is the allure of it being a DD or Colt. Now if it’s your second or third Mk 18 go with whatever.

[okie]

Umm, isn't the Daniel Defense barrel being used by the URG-I a CHF midlength barrel? AFAIK, Colt has never produced any CHF barrels in the USA. Also, I'm pretty sure that barrel can be bought like normal, under the SKU# 07-077-07308 (https://danieldefense.com/14-5-5-56m...v-profile.html with the low-profile gas block option).

My original post was about Mk18s, then someone threw in the URG. Just pointing out that government contracts can be awarded to anyone, and for that contract that manufacturer gets to use the secret sauce. People are presumptuous in assuming that their URG clone is the same as the ones being supplied to the government underneath the skin.

[okie]

Ok but none of that actually matters. This isn’t 2005 where only one or two brands could get it right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's not that they can't get it right, it's that it's not as profitable to get it right for a market that shoots 200 rounds a year. Which is why Colt stopped supplying TDP spec parts to civilians when the war on terror died down.

[Defaultmp3]

My original post was about Mk18s, then someone threw in the URG. Just pointing out that government contracts can be awarded to anyone, and for that contract that manufacturer gets to use the secret sauce. People are presumptuous in assuming that their URG clone is the same as the ones being supplied to the government underneath the skin.

I see. I had interpreted your statement to be about SOCOM rifles in general. That being said, what is this secret sauce? I'm not aware of anything special by Colt when it comes to the specs. Yeah, yeah, they own the TDP, but that's all it is, the TDP. Doesn't mean that the civilian market can't reverse engineer it, or improve upon it. I'm simply not seeing what's so special about Colt here in 2021 when it comes to performance and quality, especially to the point where you're talking about doing a barrel chop and then opening up the gas port just to utilize a Colt barrel, when there are arguably superior turnkey options out there (Daniel Defense, Centurion Arms, Criterion, etc.) even compared to the factory 10.3" Colt barrel.

As for the question at hand, between the two, I'm not a big fan of either, TBH, but I think the Geissele is a far more useful configuration; the RIS II definitely has a great aesthetic, but in this day and age, I'm not seeing the point of having 38" of 1913 on the handguard. It'll certainly be a fine rifle, and great work can be done with it, but the Geissele is definitely the more modern option, and you'll most likely get a perfectly fine rifle. For a factory 10.3"/10.5", my choice would probably be an LMT MRP-L M-LOK with a 10.5" paired with their MARS lower (they have a factory 11.5" MARS pistol, not sure if you can special order it with a 10.5" instead).

[okie]

I see. I had interpreted your statement to be about SOCOM rifles in general. That being said, what is this secret sauce? I'm not aware of anything special by Colt when it comes to the specs. Yeah, yeah, they own the TDP, but that's all it is, the TDP. Doesn't mean that the civilian market can't reverse engineer it, or improve upon it. I'm simply not seeing what's so special about Colt here in 2021 when it comes to performance and quality, especially to the point where you're talking about doing a barrel chop and then opening up the gas port just to utilize a Colt barrel, when there are arguably superior turnkey options out there (Daniel Defense, Centurion Arms, Criterion, etc.) even compared to the factory 10.3" Colt barrel.

As for the question at hand, between the two, I'm not a big fan of either, TBH, but I think the Geissele is a far more useful configuration; the RIS II definitely has a great aesthetic, but in this day and age, I'm not seeing the point of having 38" of 1913 on the handguard. It'll certainly be a fine rifle, and great work can be done with it, but the Geissele is definitely the more modern option, and you'll most likely get a perfectly fine rifle. For a factory 10.3"/10.5", my choice would probably be an LMT MRP-L M-LOK with a 10.5" paired with their MARS lower (they have a factory 11.5" MARS pistol, not sure if you can special order it with a 10.5" instead).

The TDP is everything. It's the cumulative knowledge compiled from six decades of making AR15s. Sure, someone could probably figure it out and even improve upon it, but the elephant in the room is that there's zero profit in doing so. Anything involving a contract for real users, they're going to get the instructions handed to them on a silver platter. And for rifles destined for the civilian market, let's just say there's a reason why there are thousands of people all over the internet extolling the virtues of their budget AR. The average AR gets shot one time and then put in a safe for twenty years, and manufacturers fully realize that. There's simply zero incentive to make a batch of bolts that can all go 20k rounds when not a single one will see more than 200 in the entire lifetime of the company. By the time the average AR sees 2k rounds, that company and everybody in it will be long gone. And for that one in a million (literally) customer who's actually going to wear it out, if it breaks prematurely, they can well afford the 20 dollars to pop a new bolt in it, and do that ten times over the course of as many years if necessary. But that's so rare, because that customer who's going to drop that much money on ammo knows better in the first place.

Are there good rifles out there? Sure there are. But look at what they cost. A 2010 era Colt can be had for under a grand, while a comparable commercially made rifle that's probably not quite as good is going to cost almost double that. The 2010 era Colts are basically government surplus. You can get them on forums for around 700, spend another 75 to have the barrel chopped, and voila you've got a bonafide Mk18 for eight hundred all in, and you know exactly what you're getting.