MK18 Vs. Geissele Super Duty 10.5

[scooter22]

I would take a real Colt Mk18 upper every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Or a Commando. Basically the same thing.

If you're on a budget, hunt down a TDP marked M4 upper (not hard to find) and have ADCO chop the barrel and open up the port. That's literally what the CQBR upper was (AKA Navy Mk18 made by Crane in house).

The Colt 11.5" is not the same thing, especially considering there are more than one barrel profile and the gas port is too big for suppressor use IMO.

[dan1612]

Ten Point Three.
Zero point Zero Seven Zero.
The end.

[Defaultmp3]

The TDP is everything. It's the cumulative knowledge compiled from six decades of making AR15s. Sure, someone could probably figure it out and even improve upon it, but the elephant in the room is that there's zero profit in doing so. Anything involving a contract for real users, they're going to get the instructions handed to them on a silver platter. And for rifles destined for the civilian market, let's just say there's a reason why there are thousands of people all over the internet extolling the virtues of their budget AR. The average AR gets shot one time and then put in a safe for twenty years, and manufacturers fully realize that. There's simply zero incentive to make a batch of bolts that can all go 20k rounds when not a single one will see more than 200 in the entire lifetime of the company. By the time the average AR sees 2k rounds, that company and everybody in it will be long gone. And for that one in a million (literally) customer who's actually going to wear it out, if it breaks prematurely, they can well afford the 20 dollars to pop a new bolt in it, and do that ten times over the course of as many years if necessary. But that's so rare, because that customer who's going to drop that much money on ammo knows better in the first place.

Are there good rifles out there? Sure there are. But look at what they cost. A 2010 era Colt can be had for under a grand, while a comparable commercially made rifle that's probably not quite as good is going to cost almost double that. The 2010 era Colts are basically government surplus. You can get them on forums for around 700, spend another 75 to have the barrel chopped, and voila you've got a bonafide Mk18 for eight hundred all in, and you know exactly what you're getting.

So you're gonna claim that there's is some special magic that Colt has managed to extract and keep secret/be the only one that is able to replicate, and then throw it all away by buying a gun second hand and then having some rando not from Crane do the chop and open up the gas port. Okay.

[17K]

I wouldn’t say there’s any special magic stuff happening with Colt, but they do know how to get a good 5.56 chamber and attach a carrier key. Whether they do it or pay someone, it gets done.

Hard to believe but that’s no small feat.

[DoubleW]

1CF42CAE-4679-4523-9F90-FD05442B2190.jpeg

I actually got the Mk18 itch recently and decided to go the Geissele 10.3 route. Just got my stamp back the other day and engraving done so I’m going to zero this afternoon. I’ll report back with any issues

[Walker_Texasranger]

I don’t like how G does a lot of business things, and don’t like how they switched to black oxide costing the barrels without telling anyone until they got called out on it. I got an 11.5 pistol from them. Showed up with a black oxide barrel before their website was updated. Other people started complaining and then they updated the site.

Daniel Defense makes some of the best chrome lined barrels out there and I think that’s a pretty universal thing at this point. My MK18 from them is my favorite gun. SBRd and sports a Surefire RC2 with a Geissele trigger. They still make the best triggers IMO.

[okie]

The Colt 11.5" is not the same thing, especially considering there are more than one barrel profile and the gas port is too big for suppressor use IMO.

I mean the same thing as in both would be full on milspec, at least where it counts. That inch difference in barrel length isn't a factor for me so I would take either one. Have both actually and can't really say there's any tangible difference between them. Six of one, half dozen of the other if you ask me.

Some people might argue the Mk18 handles slightly better, and others might argue that the Commando is slightly more reliable. I think those arguments are largely moot, but all I can say is I have both, love both, and would gladly take either one without any prejudice.

[okie]

So you're gonna claim that there's is some special magic that Colt has managed to extract and keep secret/be the only one that is able to replicate, and then throw it all away by buying a gun second hand and then having some rando not from Crane do the chop and open up the gas port. Okay.

ADCO is FAR from some rando. They're the most respected name in the industry, and they do fantastic work at a great price. I would venture to guess they probably do better work than crane did since they're using CNC. They've done tens of thousands of conversions and not a single baffle strike ever. They are literally the world's foremost experts when it comes to chopping AR barrels.

And no, once again you misunderstand me. Like I keep saying, Colts from that era are the pinnacle of milspec AR quality and more importantly quality control (most of the milspec requirements skipped by commercial manufacturers is the QC). Can other companies figure out the proprietary heat treats and whatnot and adopt their own QC standards internally that accomplish similar results. Obviously. But those rifles cost around 2k dollars, and some anecdotal reports would suggest they're still not quite as good. And why would they be? They make thousands of rifles, most of which never see more than a few hundred rounds. Colt makes millions, most of which get shot out multiple times in a decade. Stands to reason they're going to be ahead of the curve.

Like I said, for all intents and purposes, the 2010 era 6920s are government surplus. You're probably never going to see that caliber of AR that cheap ever again. By the time the US ramps up to another war they'll probably have replaced the M4. Or they might pull some shit where they make the contractors sign an agreement not to sell to us lowly civilians like they have with 855A1 and EPMs. Bottom line is you're probably not getting a full on milspec AR for under 1500 ever again. The fact that you can buy a lightly used one for like 800 is astounding. I picked one up for 700 the other day and it's M4A1 Carbine marked, and came with the ambi safety and side swivel even.

As for it being used, who the hell cares? If you can't evaluate a guns condition, especially at very low round counts, then I don't even know what to say. It's like I keep pointing out, people simply do not shoot these things. They fire like two boxes of ammo when they first buy them and then put them in the safe.

[okie]

I wouldn’t say there’s any special magic stuff happening with Colt, but they do know how to get a good 5.56 chamber and attach a carrier key. Whether they do it or pay someone, it gets done.

Hard to believe but that’s no small feat.

Unfortunately that's true. Most manufacturers just torque the thing on there, usually too hard. I've asked many of the top names about their key installation procedures, and they all either admitted to skipping steps or wouldn't say.

That's why I'm so obsessed with Colts. They're literally the only AR on the market you can trust, and that's only because the US government held their feet to the fire. There's no transparency outside of government contracts. If it's not TDP it's a mystery grab bag. And as much as I hate to say it, and as much as it's going to rustle people's jimmies, there's no brand that doesn't apply to.

[Defaultmp3]

ADCO is FAR from some rando. They're the most respected name in the industry, and they do fantastic work at a great price. I would venture to guess they probably do better work than crane did since they're using CNC. They've done tens of thousands of conversions and not a single baffle strike ever. They are literally the world's foremost experts when it comes to chopping AR barrels.

And no, once again you misunderstand me. Like I keep saying, Colts from that era are the pinnacle of milspec AR quality and more importantly quality control (most of the milspec requirements skipped by commercial manufacturers is the QC). Can other companies figure out the proprietary heat treats and whatnot and adopt their own QC standards internally that accomplish similar results. Obviously. But those rifles cost around 2k dollars, and some anecdotal reports would suggest they're still not quite as good. And why would they be? They make thousands of rifles, most of which never see more than a few hundred rounds. Colt makes millions, most of which get shot out multiple times in a decade. Stands to reason they're going to be ahead of the curve.

Like I said, for all intents and purposes, the 2010 era 6920s are government surplus. You're probably never going to see that caliber of AR that cheap ever again. By the time the US ramps up to another war they'll probably have replaced the M4. Or they might pull some shit where they make the contractors sign an agreement not to sell to us lowly civilians like they have with 855A1 and EPMs. Bottom line is you're probably not getting a full on milspec AR for under 1500 ever again. The fact that you can buy a lightly used one for like 800 is astounding. I picked one up for 700 the other day and it's M4A1 Carbine marked, and came with the ambi safety and side swivel even.

As for it being used, who the hell cares? If you can't evaluate a guns condition, especially at very low round counts, then I don't even know what to say. It's like I keep pointing out, people simply do not shoot these things. They fire like two boxes of ammo when they first buy them and then put them in the safe.

I've heard more than a couple horror stories about ADCO, so hard pass (particularly Duke's thread over on Lightfighter). As for other companies skipping on QC, please provide evidence of that. And please show why the TDP are the best possible requirements; my understanding is that it is merely a set of requirements as specified, there's nothing there that proves it's better than whatever standards the commercial market comes up with (see Augee's TDP/fried chicken analogy: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/MI...5/118-645480/?). And millions of rifles from Colt? AFAIK, there's been about 500k M4s manufactured... many of which aren't even Colt made, but FN. Sure, every single AR type rifle put together, and you'll get safely into the millions... but plenty of other manufacturers are easily in the six digits, with S&W definitely also in the millions. And this idea of the military use means that the gun is great is ludicrous. Just look at how long it took for them to update the M9 and SR-25 specifically because they already have a TDP, and by God, they're going to stick with it. M4s being shot out in service don't really mean anything to me, the armory can just keep putting in new parts and keep it alive à la Ship of Theseus. Beyond that, under what conditions are those guns being shot out? How reliable are they during their service? Etc.

As for a Colt cut down being less than 1000 USD out the door, sure, if you want to do a bone-stock rifle. But most folks will want to also throw on a free-float handguard, new muzzle device, new grip, new stock, maybe new trigger. All of a sudden, you've just dropped another couple hundred USD on the thing, when you could have just as easily bought something commercially that's going to serve you just as well (BCM, Sionics, SoLGW, etc.).

An assembler/manufacturer refusing to tell you about how they assemble the guns sucks... but it's also the business. You have the same issue with gas ports and the like. Doesn't mean that a company is cutting corners simply because they don't disclose their practices and specs.

Colt makes good guns, and makes them consistently, for a decent price. No argument there. But to put them on this pedestal in which there is nothing else out there like them at their price point, and possibly at any price point? Ridiculous.