IF you had to take the vaccine, which one should you take?

[titsonritz]

I doubt it knowing todays pushers of vax ! Sad but true

Valid point.

[AndyLate]

Saw the response to the specific case, but not all are a safe bet.

https://thehill.com/changing-america...id-19-daughter

"A woman's fully vaccinated father died from COVID-19, with her saying she "can't imagine how much more he would have suffered if he had not gotten the vaccine.""

"According to Jan Patterson, an infectious disease specialist at UT Health, Rodriguez was right in her assessment, that her father would have suffered more if he had not been vaccinated."

Well, yeah he could have died or something...

Andy

[Artos]

Well, yeah he could have died or something...

Andy

That's where we are going...anyone who dies from covid with the full blown jabs has a much easier & peaceful death vs the non-jab death who linger / suffer, so get your damn boosters.



...and every death from here on out is now fault of the anti jabbers. Crazy pills.


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-lower-spread/

[okie]

I doubt it knowing todays pushers of vax ! Sad but true

I there's a serious Jonestown vibe to all this. To be honest, I think there are a lot of bitter assholes out there who just want to die. But it's not enough to just take themselves out, they want to take other people with them, including and even especially the people closest to them. It grinds on them that there are people out there who find joy in living, and they want to snuff that out. I think that's the seminal psychological moment in people's conversion to liberalism. They hate themselves, they hate the world, and above all they hate anyone who doesn't share their disdain for life. I think that's why there's such a striking divide between political isles when it comes to the vaccine, lockdowns, mask mandates, etc. It's an ideological war between us and a bunch of suicidal/homicidal psychopaths who want to burn it all down, and the elite who are using them against us to achieve their ends.

[Honu]

Top that with so many that buy into this man is horrid and is the worse thing to the earth and babies are bad quit having them and cause carbon blah blah etc.
Yet they keep doing what they do and seem to have the latest iphone etc… most of them screaming from parents basement ! About how bad their parents are hahahhaha

but hey YOU are the problem !

like you said they have this disdain for life !

I there's a serious Jonestown vibe to all this. To be honest, I think there are a lot of bitter assholes out there who just want to die. But it's not enough to just take themselves out, they want to take other people with them, including and even especially the people closest to them. It grinds on them that there are people out there who find joy in living, and they want to snuff that out. I think that's the seminal psychological moment in people's conversion to liberalism. They hate themselves, they hate the world, and above all they hate anyone who doesn't share their disdain for life. I think that's why there's such a striking divide between political isles when it comes to the vaccine, lockdowns, mask mandates, etc. It's an ideological war between us and a bunch of suicidal/homicidal psychopaths who want to burn it all down, and the elite who are using them against us to achieve their ends.

[okie]

Top that with so many that buy into this man is horrid and is the worse thing to the earth and babies are bad quit having them and cause carbon blah blah etc.
Yet they keep doing what they do and seem to have the latest iphone etc… most of them screaming from parents basement ! About how bad their parents are hahahhaha

but hey YOU are the problem !

like you said they have this disdain for life !

That's a good point.

[Troutrunner]

Oh you betcha there's an argument! But let's just assume you're right. Let's assume that taking an experimental vaccine that already has a deadly track record will reduce your chances of death from covid. Considering what those chances are for the average person to begin with, we're talking the difference between infinitesimally small and slightly less than that. How's that for some advertising? "Oh just take this experimental sorta kinda FDA approved but not really vaccine, that's already injured and killed a bunch of people, and we promise your chances of dying from covid will go down a few hundredths of a percent."

Indeed, let's talk about boosters. Israel found them necessary for the general population at three months. Now one month after the booster they're finding a second booster necessary for most people, and are in fact about to make it mandatory for fully vaccinated status to get into public places. This ain't the freaking MMR vaccine! MMR has fewer reports of injuries in its entire life than any of the covid jabs in just a few months, and by a lot. And they aren't having to threaten people with being taken to a concentration camp to get them to get it either. Most do, some don't, and ya know what? Nobody cares because we don't have cases, because the MMR vaccine works! And you know what else? Two shots last us for our entire lives! Nobody is going to hunt you down and make you a criminal because you didn't get your monthly MMR booster. How you can even compare those two is so far beyond me I can only conclude you have your own agenda here.

I never said VAERS can be taken as fact, but to dismiss it is insanity. We're not talking a slight increase here. We're talking orders of magnitude more reports, in a time frame that's orders of magnitude smaller than any other widely distributed vaccine in history. And all amid reports from nurses around the country testifying that 1, they do not have time to use the system, 2, that the system often won't work, meaning they can't make the report, and 3, that their bosses are pressuring them not to use it. This dismissal of VARES is a propaganda line from the administration. Yea it has problems, and no that doesn't make the numbers any less alarming, especially since the problems with it are weighted in the direction of underreporting.

I think the hardest part is not conflating the actual science related to the disease and vaccine with the media tards and the government overreach. By taking each as its own entity it's easier to understand and make reasonable valid choices. We are in agreement on 2 out of the 3. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have a really high bar for the rest of the world, I wish I knew them, so, I could ascertain if they really are that high achieving. From my experience, I rarely find people who I think are truly exceptional. One thing I've learned as I aged is that everyone is winging it.

I've been pretty clear regarding my stance on the nuance associated with who needs a vaccine and who can do without. The broad sweeping statements don't take into account the risk factors and age. What is appropriate risk? You mentioned that the reduction wasn't worth it with the vaccine, well, it depends on who you are. Below are ages with hospitalization rates and death:

Age Hospitalization rate Death rate
20 .9% <.1%
30 2.7% <.1%
40 4.8% .2%
50 8.5 % .4%
60 15.5% 1.5%
70 24.4% 4.7%
80 31.7% 21.2%

I think we can agree that the younger you are the less risk you have. Which age gets peoples attention? Are we fine with 5 out of 100 people at age 40 being in the hospital or do we not sweat it until we're at 25% when we are 70? What rate of death do we accept? How many people are cool with missing work and not getting paid? What about the long term effects, you might be out of the hospital but you might not be back at work? There's more to this than death.

I don't have an agenda. I don't care if you get the vaccine or not. Don't care who dies of covid unless it's one of my close circle. At work, I admit them all day long and most are pretty scared. I do what I can.

I don't think anyone should be hunting people down, see we agree again. I also don't think people who don't understand statistical power in studies should be driving anybody away from vaccines because they read something on the internet and it worked on a few guys and this "doctor" said so. Doctors are people, I've worked with great ones and I've worked with people who were really good at test taking. Nurses are the same, some are good and some are conspiratorial whackos from the left and the right. Guess what, the population demo's cover all the jobs, it's just that some make more and some make less. They are all from the same melting pot of people.

Whether by design or due to multiple decisions along the way, the current hospital system is failing and being overrun. Everyone should care about this, you might not need it for covid but everyone comes calling someday.

[Troutrunner]

Many doctors have had success with early intervention and yet they were shut down, and censured. The CDC, FDA, NIH, and corporate medicine/hospitals played politics at the expense of human life and have seriously damaged the credibility of the entire medical system/profession.

Wish they didn't shut them down so they could have kept doing the research. If they worked we'd know by now. Should have kept the talk open and we could have learned more. Hopefully, we will see more out soon stating that things work or don't work. But will larger studies be accepted or not if it says it works or not?

[Honu]

Just thinking I said MAN OH NO I meant birthing person OH WAIT that might alienate non birthers ummmm HUMAN ! OH darn that has MAN in it also WOMEN ! OH DARN once again MEN !!!

I am so insensitive I ummm I ummm I got no clue anymore what to say hahahahahahah

That's a good point.

[okie]

I think the hardest part is not conflating the actual science related to the disease and vaccine with the media tards and the government overreach. By taking each as its own entity it's easier to understand and make reasonable valid choices. We are in agreement on 2 out of the 3. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have a really high bar for the rest of the world, I wish I knew them, so, I could ascertain if they really are that high achieving. From my experience, I rarely find people who I think are truly exceptional. One thing I've learned as I aged is that everyone is winging it.

I've been pretty clear regarding my stance on the nuance associated with who needs a vaccine and who can do without. The broad sweeping statements don't take into account the risk factors and age. What is appropriate risk? You mentioned that the reduction wasn't worth it with the vaccine, well, it depends on who you are. Below are ages with hospitalization rates and death:

Age Hospitalization rate Death rate
20 .9% <.1%
30 2.7% <.1%
40 4.8% .2%
50 8.5 % .4%
60 15.5% 1.5%
70 24.4% 4.7%
80 31.7% 21.2%

I think we can agree that the younger you are the less risk you have. Which age gets peoples attention? Are we fine with 5 out of 100 people at age 40 being in the hospital or do we not sweat it until we're at 25% when we are 70? What rate of death do we accept? How many people are cool with missing work and not getting paid? What about the long term effects, you might be out of the hospital but you might not be back at work? There's more to this than death.

I don't have an agenda. I don't care if you get the vaccine or not. Don't care who dies of covid unless it's one of my close circle. At work, I admit them all day long and most are pretty scared. I do what I can.

I don't think anyone should be hunting people down, see we agree again. I also don't think people who don't understand statistical power in studies should be driving anybody away from vaccines because they read something on the internet and it worked on a few guys and this "doctor" said so. Doctors are people, I've worked with great ones and I've worked with people who were really good at test taking. Nurses are the same, some are good and some are conspiratorial whackos from the left and the right. Guess what, the population demo's cover all the jobs, it's just that some make more and some make less. They are all from the same melting pot of people.

Whether by design or due to multiple decisions along the way, the current hospital system is failing and being overrun. Everyone should care about this, you might not need it for covid but everyone comes calling someday.

And how many of those deaths were actually due to covid, as opposed to the 2-6 comorbidities most of those senior citizens have who are dying "with covid." And how many of those who actually died of covid were in fact flu cases misdiagnosed as covid? Anyone who believes the flue was down 98% must have been born yesterday. And of those people who really, actually died of the real covid, how many of those were murdered for profit with ventilators and Remdesivir?

Sorry, but the overwhelming evidence is that covid poses less threat to everyone than the seasonal flu. We will never know what the actual numbers are, and that's obviously by design, but needless to say the data is extremely heavily weighted in favor of the grimmest possible outcome.

BUT, let's just play devil's advocate and say your numbers are right. And let's say that the vaccine does in fact give older folks some degree of protection. I say again, for how long? It's now an established fact that what little protection it gives is gone within three months, and then the booster is gone in a month, and we have no data for how long the second booster lasts because that's being rolled out in Israel as we speak. And we have no idea if a third booster will impart any immunity whatsoever, and for how long.

And we have no idea what the long term effects of the vaccines are. The injury rate might skyrocket at six months for all we know. What if young people getting it today don't make it past 40 because their hearts give out? There are things about this vaccine we won't know for years, but what's transpired thus far already is far less than encouraging.

Those are the facts. The vaccine might be able to promise a little protection for a disease that's hardly a threat, but for a very limited time, and at the price of having no idea what the actual risk is long term. Who in their right mind would take an experimental vaccine that's proven 100% to stop working in less than a year, even with boosters, for a virus that's probably damn near 100% survivable?

And what about countries like Israel that vaxxed and then triple vaxxed everyone and still have more covid than countries that didn't??? How can you possibly still argue for the efficacy of the vaccines after that? This isn't six months ago when we had no idea. The cat's out of the bag now, and they simply do not work, and even if they did, they don't work long enough to even be considered an option.