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Thread: Colt's response to my complaint about Brownell's 14.5 and 11.5 barrels...

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  1. #1
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    Colt's response to my complaint about Brownell's 14.5 and 11.5 barrels...

    You may recall I posted feed ramp pics of two, 14.5 and one, 11.5 Colt barrels I bought from Brownell's this Aug and Sep. The ramps had been poorly and unprofessionally dremelled by hand. They showed deep stone marks, non-symmetrical removal of material, and chambers full of medal dust. Below is my initial complaint to Colt, Colt's reply, and my reply back to Colt. As of this posting Colt hasn't responded to my last email.

    Let's go Brandon!


    From: ---------------
    Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2021 5:50 PM
    To: Customer Service
    Subject: Is this how Colt REALLY does their feed ramps???

    Hello Colt Customer Service;

    This month (September) I bought the following 5.56x45 Colt barrels from Brownell's:
    1 each, 11.5" Heavy Barrel.......received 9/8
    1 each, 14.5" Govt Profile.........received 9/15
    1 each, 14.5" Govt Profile.........received 9/30

    Both feed ramps in all barrels were heavily Dremeled - by hand - after these barrels were parkerized. The Dremel cuts are crooked, uneven, and extremely rough. No inspection was done to note these defects and no rework was done to correct them. No Craytex was used to smooth and blend the rough stone marks.

    All locking lugs/recesses, chambers, and throats are covered in metal dust and tiny chips. No effort was made to remove this FOD (Foreign Object Debris) by compressed air or fluid wash (parts washer, spray solvent, etc).

    In addition to the rough, unprofessional Dremel job, every locking lug of the 14.5" barrel I received today (9/30) is badly chipped on the inner corners. That this barrel was sent to parkerizing indicates this barrel was never inspected or was poorly inspected.

    Brownell's tells me these barrels came directly from Colt. I find it hard to believe Colt would let this kind of work out the door. So I have some questions.

    1. Is this how Colt finishes feed ramps on their complete firearms?
    2. On their military contract firearms?
    3. Or were these amateur and unnecessary Dremel jobs done by someone else after the barrels left Colt?
    4. Where can I get these same barrels, but with proper feed ramps?

    As an Type 07/SOT II (1990-2014) I bought for resale numerous NIB select fire Colt M16A1's (rifles and carbines), SP1's, and the famous H-BAR's. I went over every one with a fine tooth comb. Not one had feed ramps like these Brownell's Colt barrels. Every Colt I bought, sold, or owned, ran like a top. Especially the select fire Colts. Never. A. Single. Problem. Ever. That's the Colt I remember and loved.

    I'm returning all three barrels to Brownell's. I have no confidence in them. I can't risk function failure or catastrophic destruction and injury in full auto fire.

    Thank you for your time. I look forward to your reply.
    ========================


    Customer Service <cs@colt.com>
    To: --------
    Fri, Oct 1 at 11:07 AM


    Hello -------,

    Yes, our barrels are adjusted and modified by hand if they are found to be outside of the factory specifications and tolerances. This is normal for barrels used for all builds, commercial, L.E. and contract (i.e. military). Function and reliability is paramount with our rifles and manufacturing tends not to be concerned with cosmetics on internal parts.

    Another retailer who stocks our barrels is Arms Unlimited. You can try with them to see if they have a batch of barrels that are more visually acceptable for you. Their information should be in the auto response email.

    Customer Solutions Team
    Colt's Manufacturing Company LLC
    545 New Park Avenue
    West Hartford, CT 06110
    cs@colt.com
    ============================


    From: -----
    To: Customer Service <cs@colt.com>
    Sent: Saturday, October 2, 2021, 09:12:28 AM EDT
    Subject: Re: Is this how Colt REALLY does their feed ramps???

    Customer Service;

    Thank you for your fast reply. Your answers raised a couple of significant questions. Those questions are in red below. Would you please try your best to answer them?

    Thank you again for your time and your forthcoming answers.

    Sincerely,
    Wayne


    You said:
    ....our barrels are adjusted and modified by hand if they are found to be outside of the factory specifications and tolerances...


    If it's outside spec and tolerance, it's a reject. That means the three Colt barrels I got from Brownell's were factory rejects. These rejects were roughly Dremeled by hand, leaving unsymmetrical gouges and deep stone marks in the feed ramps. Feed ramps are supposed to be smooth and uniform. Not unsymmetrical with deeply gouged, rough tool marks.

    Many on the gun boards complain of hacked up feed ramps. With so many rejects why doesn't Colt address the problems causing the rejects?


    You said:
    Function and reliability is paramount with our rifles

    Pictures show these barrels were never fired. How do you claim "function and reliability is paramount" when you clearly didn't test fire the barrels for function or reliability?


    You said:
    ...our barrels are adjusted and modified by hand if they are found to be outside of the factory specifications and tolerances...This is normal for barrels used for...military.

    When military men go into harm's way their weapons must be absolutely reliable in the harshest conditions. I find it hard if not impossible to believe DOD accepts reject barrels with deeply hacked, rough surfaced, feed ramps. No unit armorer would accept this. No depot level technician would accept this. And no warfighter would accept this; especially in the elite units.

    Can you provide a copy of the DOD/military waiver to Colt on feed ramp specs and tolerances?



    You said:
    ...manufacturing tends not to be concerned with cosmetics on internal parts.

    This statement indicates a complete lack of firearms and gunsmithing knowledge. Fully zoom on the pics and you'll see the rough, wavy, and unsymmetrical Dremel work, with deep stone marks. That's not just "cosmetic". That's a failure waiting to happen. Rough feed surfaces can catch a bullet tip or case rim cause FTF (failure to feed). Unsymmetrical and too broad or deep Dremel gouges can divert the cartridge too far right, too far left, or too high up, and cause FTF or jam.


    Would it help to get answers if I send a copy of this email with accompanying letter, via US certified mail to the CEO, Board of Directors, and Operations Manager of Colt Manufacturing; and to Colt Defense's Dennis Veilleux, James R. Battaglini, Aditya Rana, and others? They may be interested to learn that the military accepts Dremel hacked feed ramps and isn't concerned about "cosmetics".



    Thank you again for your email. It contained a wealth of information


    Sincerely,
    ------
    Last edited by Old Coot; 10-16-21 at 16:13. Reason: Underscored some of my questions to Colt in my final email to them.

  2. #2
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    Ehhhhhhh I understand your frustration but the last paragraph was unnecessarily cringey. I could see that ACTION (not threat of action) being justified if they ignore your second email or provide unacceptable answers, but to threaten such a dramatic action without even asking for a simple exchange or remedy was a little much.

  3. #3
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    Isnt that basically the same response that everyone in the initial thread told you?
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  4. #4
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    I just checked my duty rifle (6920) from circa 2011ish. Has similar type marks. Also has over 10k rounds through it and I cant remember a single malfunction. We are getting new rifles soon and Im buying this one back from the retailer doing the contract/trade. We've been through a lot together and I trust it with my life, literally. Ill gladly pay over market value for it.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Coot View Post
    Back up this claim of "similar type marks". Post pics.

    Hope he shares pictures as well...

    The mods might not lock and kill this thread if guys are posting pictures of actual examples they have bought and explaining why they think it may be messed up?








    All pictures above are Colt. The bottom picture is a 6920. Not nearly as bad on that 6920 as some pictures I have seen shared online...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG23 View Post
    Hope he shares pictures as well...

    The mods might not lock and kill this thread if guys are posting pictures of actual examples they have bought and explaining why they think it may be messed up?

    All pictures above are Colt. The bottom picture is a 6920. Not nearly as bad on that 6920 as some pictures I have seen shared online...
    Top and bottom pic seem to at least be symmetrical. I could probably live with those.

    I do have a question though. Why doesn't Colt just buy the barrel extensions machined to the correct dimensions, instead of having to finish them by hand, like other manufacturers? I can't imagine it's more efficient, cost effective, or consistent. Puzzling.
    Last edited by georgeib; 10-16-21 at 21:31.
    “You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” -Augustine

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG23 View Post
    Hope he shares pictures as well...

    The mods might not lock and kill this thread if guys are posting pictures of actual examples they have bought and explaining why they think it may be messed up?








    All pictures above are Colt. The bottom picture is a 6920. Not nearly as bad on that 6920 as some pictures I have seen shared online...
    Making the thread a resource instead of a bitch fest is always a great option, thank you for reminding all of us of that. Well done good sir!
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  8. #8
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    Also... Why when I purchase a bolt gun barrel that work done by hand after the barrel comes out of the machines is considered a good thing, but if Colt does it it's a reject barrel?
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    Also... Why when I purchase a bolt gun barrel that work done by hand after the barrel comes out of the machines is considered a good thing, but if Colt does it it's a reject barrel?
    I'm not seeing this as a fair comparison. One is a precision handmade barrel with finishing touches added as a final step, whereas the other is a mass produced piece manufactured to "TDP" with out of spec issues being corrected in an obviously inconsistent and careless manner. I would bet the farm that half-assed Dremeling isn't mentioned in the TDP anywhere.

    Furthermore, why do we not seem to see this with other AR barrel manufacturers? Put together a PSA for a buddy not too long ago, and the extension was aesthetically flawless. I don't know... but this just doesn't smell right. I feel like I'm being gaslighted by people saying this is normal.

    ETA: Misread what you wrote C-grunt. Thought you were talking about handmade precision barrels, not standard barrels. Either way, I think you get my gist.
    Last edited by georgeib; 10-16-21 at 18:47.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    Isnt that basically the same response that everyone in the initial thread told you?
    The difference between what "everyone" and Colt told me is this; Colt told me the barrels were rejects.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyLate View Post
    How could Colt verify function or reliability for a barrel sold as a component?

    Andy
    How could they claim a badly hand modified feed ramp functioned reliably without actually firing it to verify their claim?

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