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Thread: Throw Back Movie Clip , Billy Jack

  1. #11
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    Good to see there is some old dudes digging, "and there aint nuthing you can do about it".

    Its funny when watching real old stuff, you cant remember the lines but somehow you do. The mind is a funny thing.

    PB
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pappabear View Post
    Good to see there is some old dudes digging, "and there aint nuthing you can do about it".

    Its funny when watching real old stuff, you cant remember the lines but somehow you do. The mind is a funny thing.

    PB
    Correction: "....and there's not a damn thing you can do about it".

    "Yeah?"

    [smirky grin] "Yeah.....WAAA!"

    Friggin' classic!
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    Oh, and screw China!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Have the four film, DVD box set. Watching them now, they are sorta terrible "race baiting" films. Bong Soo Han was the guy doing the actual martial arts in Billy Jack. It was a start and pretty good for a early US "martial arts film" given that the TV show "Kung Fu" hadn't even happened yet.
    IIRC that helped start Hapkido training here in the states. It might have existed before but Bong Soo Han really kicked it off (pun intended).

    Okay Steyr, you're really into that stuff......what do you think of Hapkido as a viable self-defense art for street use? That's what Chuck Norris trained in right? From my understanding it's a little less "competition-oriented" like Tae Kwon Do and more practical (?).
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    Oh, and screw China!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    IIRC that helped start Hapkido training here in the states. It might have existed before but Bong Soo Han really kicked it off (pun intended).

    Okay Steyr, you're really into that stuff......what do you think of Hapkido as a viable self-defense art for street use? That's what Chuck Norris trained in right? From my understanding it's a little less "competition-oriented" like Tae Kwon Do and more practical (?).
    Absolutely Bong Soo Han is the godfather of Hapkido in the US. As for practical for fighting, essentially it's a Korean blend of TKD and Japanese Aikido. It's as effective as any other Aikido blend which has been combined with Japanese karate styles and numerous other hybrids from mid 20th century forward.

    As with anything, it's effectiveness relies more on the training mentality than the system itself. Many Aiki systems have moved toward the art and the mysteries of ki to such an extent that they are virtually worthless as a fighting art, on the other end of the spectrum people like Gozo Shioda moved it so close to the martial aspects that a new system of Aikido had to be declared because he restored striking methods (atemi waza) back to the system that were mostly removed when Aikijutsu evolved into Aikido just as what was seen when Jujutsu was evolved into a mostly sport system that became Judo.

    All aiki systems (joint locking, arm bars, etc.) are based upon Chinese specializations which were called Chin Na which were found as sub categories of many Chinese boxing styles in the same way trapping is found in many styles of Chinese boxing.

    Obviously knowledge of aiki / chin na methods would make any martial artist more complete and their inclusion into any system would render that system more comprehensive. But focus on reality based technique over higher expressions of art as a physical expression of zen would be the determining factor of what is combat effective.

    The Japanese are sometimes famous for embracing the art at the expense of the martial, especially in systems that have become almost purely a cultural art. This is frequently seen in modern schools of archery (Kyudo in Japanese) where masters frequently miss targets by a meter or more but the execution of the draw and release was a perfect expression of zen mindset in motion.

    This same flaw is often seen in aiki styles where execution of technique has become almost purely a cooperative dance that look more like tango and less like combat. Rarely does anyone practicing an aiki system (and this includes those who practice Hapkido) try to apply these methods to real world kicks and punches of the kind delivered by actual martial artists. Exceptions exist, but they are in the minority.

    Chuck Norris actually practiced Tang Soo Do, which had a stronger foundation in Chinese boxing methods and "tends" to be more reality based than Tae Kwon Do which was first neutered to be more commercially viable with teachers stressing dazzling kicking combinations over being able to fight and then was further disabled to become an Olympic sport where punching to the face isn't even legal so most TKD black belts have never really concerned themselves with defending against a punch to the face which is one of the most likely things to happen in any real world encounter. And obviously Norris cross trained with every notable martial artist of his day which made him even more effective, Tang Soo Do was simply his base system.

    But even here, exceptions again exist, if you learned your Tae Kwon Do in the South Korean army where they take such things very seriously, your black belt rank will have dramatically more meaning than the black belts handed out to 12 year olds at the local Tae Kwon Do chain of school in most major cities. And if you think guys like Hee Il Cho are all fluff, you are in for a rude awakening should you try and fight him, he was famous for things like blending TKD with American boxing as he was for his amazing jump spinning back kicks.

    As to the effectiveness of any aiki based system, if you train in a reality based way, such as what police officers are required to do with arm bars, joint locks and wrist locks on a daily basis as a compliance method, you can combine that with any system of striking / kicking / grappling and arrive at something practical.

    People think "mixed" martial arts is a new concept, it really isn't, they simply called them hybrid martial arts back in the 60s and Bruce Lee called his concept style Jeet Kune Do but it was essentially a hybrid with a "use what works / abandon what doesn't" philosophy. 200 years ago any martial artist did exactly the same, the idea that a swordsman would only have knowledge of one school of fencing would have been laughable.
    Last edited by SteyrAUG; 10-21-21 at 19:45.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Chuck Norris actually practiced Tang Soo Do, which had a stronger foundation in Chinese boxing methods and "tends" to be more reality based than Tae Kwon Do which was first neutered to be more commercially viable with teachers stressing dazzling kicking combinations over being able to fight and then was further disabled to become an Olympic sport where punching to the face isn't even legal so most TKD black belts have never really concerned themselves with defending against a punch to the face which is one of the most likely things to happen in any real world encounter. And obviously Norris cross trained with every notable martial artist of his day which made him even more effective, Tang Soo Do was simply his base system.
    A.K.A. Moo Duk Kwan, iirc

    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    As to the effectiveness of any aiki based system, if you train in a reality based way, such as what police officers are required to do with arm bars, joint locks and wrist locks on a daily basis as a compliance method, you can combine that with any system of striking / kicking / grappling and arrive at something practical.

    People think "mixed" martial arts is a new concept, it really isn't, they simply called them hybrid martial arts back in the 60s and Bruce Lee called his concept style Jeet Kune Do but it was essentially a hybrid with a "use what works / abandon what doesn't" philosophy. 200 years ago any martial artist did exactly the same, the idea that a swordsman would only have knowledge of one school of fencing would have been laughable.
    Good synopsis.
    Let's Go Brandon!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Absolutely Bong Soo Han is the godfather of Hapkido in the US. As for practical for fighting, essentially it's a Korean blend of TKD and Japanese Aikido. It's as effective as any other Aikido blend which has been combined with Japanese karate styles and numerous other hybrids from mid 20th century forward.

    As with anything, it's effectiveness relies more on the training mentality than the system itself. Many Aiki systems have moved toward the art and the mysteries of ki to such an extent that they are virtually worthless as a fighting art, on the other end of the spectrum people like Gozo Shioda moved it so close to the martial aspects that a new system of Aikido had to be declared because he restored striking methods (atemi waza) back to the system that were mostly removed when Aikijutsu evolved into Aikido just as what was seen when Jujutsu was evolved into a mostly sport system that became Judo.

    All aiki systems (joint locking, arm bars, etc.) are based upon Chinese specializations which were called Chin Na which were found as sub categories of many Chinese boxing styles in the same way trapping is found in many styles of Chinese boxing.

    Obviously knowledge of aiki / chin na methods would make any martial artist more complete and their inclusion into any system would render that system more comprehensive. But focus on reality based technique over higher expressions of art as a physical expression of zen would be the determining factor of what is combat effective.

    The Japanese are sometimes famous for embracing the art at the expense of the martial, especially in systems that have become almost purely a cultural art. This is frequently seen in modern schools of archery (Kyudo in Japanese) where masters frequently miss targets by a meter or more but the execution of the draw and release was a perfect expression of zen mindset in motion.

    This same flaw is often seen in aiki styles where execution of technique has become almost purely a cooperative dance that look more like tango and less like combat. Rarely does anyone practicing an aiki system (and this includes those who practice Hapkido) try to apply these methods to real world kicks and punches of the kind delivered by actual martial artists. Exceptions exist, but they are in the minority.

    Chuck Norris actually practiced Tang Soo Do, which had a stronger foundation in Chinese boxing methods and "tends" to be more reality based than Tae Kwon Do which was first neutered to be more commercially viable with teachers stressing dazzling kicking combinations over being able to fight and then was further disabled to become an Olympic sport where punching to the face isn't even legal so most TKD black belts have never really concerned themselves with defending against a punch to the face which is one of the most likely things to happen in any real world encounter. And obviously Norris cross trained with every notable martial artist of his day which made him even more effective, Tang Soo Do was simply his base system.

    But even here, exceptions again exist, if you learned your Tae Kwon Do in the South Korean army where they take such things very seriously, your black belt rank will have dramatically more meaning than the black belts handed out to 12 year olds at the local Tae Kwon Do chain of school in most major cities. And if you think guys like Hee Il Cho are all fluff, you are in for a rude awakening should you try and fight him, he was famous for things like blending TKD with American boxing as he was for his amazing jump spinning back kicks.

    As to the effectiveness of any aiki based system, if you train in a reality based way, such as what police officers are required to do with arm bars, joint locks and wrist locks on a daily basis as a compliance method, you can combine that with any system of striking / kicking / grappling and arrive at something practical.

    People think "mixed" martial arts is a new concept, it really isn't, they simply called them hybrid martial arts back in the 60s and Bruce Lee called his concept style Jeet Kune Do but it was essentially a hybrid with a "use what works / abandon what doesn't" philosophy. 200 years ago any martial artist did exactly the same, the idea that a swordsman would only have knowledge of one school of fencing would have been laughable.
    I was not disappointed, Thanks!
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    Oh, and screw China!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by titsonritz View Post
    A.K.A. Moo Duk Kwan, iirc
    Very closely related. Moo Duk Kwan can be seen as an evolution of Tang Soo Do. They are certainly cousin styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    I was not disappointed, Thanks!
    I've had good teachers. I've also had the benefit of studying practical firearms parallel to martial arts and being able to use one as a yardstick against the other.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Very closely related. Moo Duk Kwan can be seen as an evolution of Tang Soo Do. They are certainly cousin styles.



    I've had good teachers. I've also had the benefit of studying practical firearms parallel to martial arts and being able to use one as a yardstick against the other.
    I can relate and appreciate your posts on the subject. Back when I was a kid I had the privilege to train in Moo Duk Kwan, Arnis and kickboxing with Frank Scalercio...
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Mt...0frank&f=false
    https://www.laffertyandsmith.com/obi...k-scalercio-jr
    It definitely rolled over into my firearm use and most everything else really.
    Let's Go Brandon!

  9. #19
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    Billy Jack...kicking hippy hating and indian hating whitey kister for the good of humanity.

  10. #20
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    Dang, Billy Jack was my hero back when I was in elementary school. For Christmas one year I got a denim jacket and a black "Injun Joe" hat (as I called it). Thought I was something. I need to find some pictures.

    Aside from the Billy Jack series Tom Laughlin starred in a B western called The Master Gunfighter. Pretty entertaining film if you can find it.
    Last edited by jdgiii; 10-22-21 at 21:39.

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