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Thread: Alec Baldwin kills someone in movie accident

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    Wow that sounds like something the NRA would say...
    Yes... Imagine that!

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Pretty much. The fault is 100% with the gun wranglers who were the "safties" for the prop guns they provided.
    There this: https://metro.co.uk/2021/10/23/rust-...eady-15473662/

    Apparently the woman who was head armorer for this set was relatively new to the job. Comments in the article refer to an earlier experience of hers, but its not clear if she was urged by her father to become an armorer or if she had a genuine interest in the minutia of firearms.

    Someone who serves as an armorer should be able to discuss firearms with an exactitude and a level of detail that is solid and correct. I don't get that sense from her statements in the podcast (but it is a small sample, and possibly outdated).

    Thing is, we are trying to determine what happened based on media reports; and reporters are often dreadful at trying to translate information about firearms.

    The term 'misfire' keeps showing up and when the they use it apparently, they are probably describing a hammer falling on an empty chamber instead of a cartridge failing to fire. As an unrelated example: if a scene required only two shots, and the gun used in this hypothetical scene was only loaded with two blanks, but the cylinder was improperly indexed, the scene would have to be redone when things didn't go as planned because the gun didn't fire on cue. In order to keep that type of failure from happening, because people often manipulate guns, the armorer has to assign someone (or several people) to watch the gun handling like a hawk.

    I've seen several movies where pistols were used. For a camera angle change, the actor would fire a few rounds and the gun would lock open on an empty mag (a slight faux pas). In the movie, the next view shows and the gun is still in battery and being fired.
    Its because when they filmed the intermediate scene, only enough blanks were put in the gun to do that small part of the script.
    It ends up looking like an editing error.
    Its not quite as bad as the gun changing brands in the middle of a scene.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    The fault is 100% with the gun wranglers who were the "safties" for the prop guns they provided.
    Yeah no.

    There is so much blame to go around here it is off the charts. Until we know who did or didnt do what, when and what their contract stated they were responsible for, it is unknown who is responsible. a phuck up this big rarely is one person. Requires multiple layers of failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I don't just hand out guns to people who are clueless and expect that nothing will go wrong.
    Probably why you are not a Hollywood gun wrangler, as you would never get hired.

  4. #114
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    Do we know yet what type of gun was used?
    The Second Amendment ACKNOWLEDGES our right to own and bear arms that are in common use that can be used for lawful purposes. The arms can be restricted ONLY if subject to historical analogue from the founding era or is dangerous (unsafe) AND unusual.

    It's that simple.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    Do we know yet what type of gun was used?
    Reportedly a SA Colt 45

  6. #116
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    Smells of all inclusiveness to me, and just gets worse and worse with each new detail:

    'I wasn't sure if I was ready': The 24-year-old armorer who had doubts before being put in charge of guns on Alec Baldwin film set where he shot cinematographer dead - after some crew walked out over safety

    Armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed and assistant director Dave Halls were named in search warrant on Friday
    Gutierrez-Reed, 24, laid out three guns, and Halls picked up a Colt pistol and handed it to Baldwin
    'Cold gun!' shouted Halls, a veteran assistant director who worked on Fargo and The Matrix Reloaded
    When Baldwin pulled the trigger, a bullet was fired, killing the cinematographer and injuring the director
    Gutierrez-Reed is the daughter of legendary Hollywood armorer Thell Reed who trained her from a young age
    She recently served as head armorer on a film for the first time, on The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage
    In a podcast interview after filming ended, she said she wasn't sure if she was ready to be a head armorer
    Meanwhile, troubling reports highlight safety concerns on the set of Baldwin's Western film, Rust
    Production crew on the set of Rust walked out on Thursday morning in a row over safety and long hours
    On Thursday, when they arrived to pack up, they found a team of non-union workers waiting to replace them
    Halyna Hutchins decided to stay on the set and film with Alec Baldwin and the film director Joel Souza
    She had been advocating on behalf of her team for better working conditions, but was killed by the bullet
    Last night Baldwin attended a private memorial and tweeted article claiming he was told prop gun was safe

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...win-film.html?
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  7. #117
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    So if someone hands you a revolver and asks you to shoot it, do you randomly pull the trigger, or do you open it and verify the load?

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    She recently served as head armorer on a film for the first time, on The Old Way, starring Nicolas Cage
    In a podcast interview after filming ended, she said she wasn't sure if she was ready to be a head armorer
    .

    This quote is relative to the Cage movie, not the Baldwin movie. Presumably since she completed the Cage movie she knew if she was ready or not for the Baldwin movie.

  9. #119
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    My direct experience on set was just for a few History Channel shoots 20 years ago, but I've more than a fair bit of time being in the shops of armorers and hanging with gun wranglers. If this was a live round, the armorer screwed up the 1st line of defense not checking and confirming the pistols. Whomever retrieved the pistol (sounds like it was not the armorer) failed the 2nd line by declaring the gun was cold without confirming. Baldwin failed the 3rd line by pointing the pistol at a person.

    When we did our shoots, ammo was always confirmed and checked before hand. We were always instructed to fire off line of our target. The camera angle would do the work. Never aim directly at someone. Same things we did for choreographed live public demonstrations/shows. Even with blanks, aim a few feet away from a live body.

    Baldwin, as an actor in this movie, gets a pass on not checking the pistol. Many times, the actor is placed in position, handed the firearm, the shot is taken/sequence filmed, and the firearm is immediately removed before the actor moves again. Chain of custody. The actors are depending on paid professionals to ensure the firearm they are given is properly prepared. He will (I guess "should have" to is more correct) have to answer as to why he was aiming a firearm at a person(s). That is not industry practice, even with props.

    Baldwin, as a producer on this movie, is going to have to answer for the safety issues surrounding the set. He DOES have control and say over that. It sounds like there were multiple issues on set, including some with the firearms, leading up to the shooting.
    Last edited by mrbieler; 10-23-21 at 14:15.
    - Jeff

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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    So if someone hands you a revolver and asks you to shoot it, do you randomly pull the trigger, or do you open it and verify the load?
    We here would check it period.

    Things must be different on a set. One doesn't randomly pull a trigger, it is supposed to be according to the script and the gun needs to go bang according to the script. So if a revolver is being used and it does not have a full cylinder, it has to be indexed so that the blank is going to fire with the next trigger cycle of manipulation.

    If you are familiar with the gun, this is not difficult to arrange. Most of the people involved are not familiar with these things and if they handle the gun much there is an 80% chance it will be wrong when its needed.

    This is more of a people control problem than a gun control problem.

    Still doesn't explain where a live cartridge came from.

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