Stainless barrel; yay or nay?

[Pappabear]

Indiana, its shocking they didnt sell more. I bought mine at a fire sale at SGC for $1,000. Hell the stock was worth $600 at the time, I inspected the shit out of that gun before I bought it. But it was true blue FN SPR and says it on the barrel. Others did not say it.

Vegas, I bet you clean it and it still shoots sub moa. I would also try before you clean. And I wouldn't ultra clean it, id just clean it and keep the benefit of it being broken in a bit.

PB

[MS556]

CL, nitride and stainless all have their respective benefits and deficiencies.

The benefit of stainless is potential for better accuracy. However, unless the barrel is drilled, rifled and finished to match grade quality, the potential benefit is illusion. But, a custom match/benchrest barrel maker like Kreiger, Bartlein or Lilja will produce their best barrels from 416 stainless because it is easier to machine to tighter, more uniform tolerances. Those barrels are not sub MOA, they are sub 1/2 MOA, some even sub 1/4 MOA capable.

Even so, that potential is heavily ammo dependent. No match grade barrel even from one of those benchrest quality barrel makers, is going to shoot bulk ammo or M193 or M855 any better than 2.5 MOA or so. Match ammo, especially custom handloads with match components (think Berger bullets, Lapua cases, benchrest prepped, match primers, laddered powder charges, optimized seating depth) can produce amazing results from such barrels.

I am fortunate to have a Lilja M4 Navy 16" Wylde chamber, 1:8 twist barrel. This is the same barrel made for NSWC Crane for the SEAL Recce. It will shoot Berger flat base 52 target bullets into the 4's (.4" at 100 yards) with boring regularity, sometimes into the 3s. Stainless is just the metal. Those blanks are drilled and rifled to .0002" straight from leade to muzzle, and hand lapped. It's the precision and skill of the barrel maker that makes this possible.

If 1 MOA or close to it is good enough with good commercial ammo is a reasonable objective, most rack grade barrels from name brand companies will get you there these days.

[okie]

Unless you're doing bench or something, I can't see any real world advantage. Chrome lined barrels have gotten so good in the last few decades. At a bare minimum, you're going to have to be using match grade ammunition, or even handloads, to appreciate the difference.

Also keep in mind that not all stainless barrels are created equal. You can get cheap ones for like a hundred bucks or something, and obviously that's not going to benefit you anything. Might as well just go CMV for the durability.

That's another thing about stainless. You have to handle them with kid gloves because the metals have lower working temperatures. They shoot out much faster, especially considering what kind of groups people need them to hold to keep their edge over chrome, and you have to shoot slower and always be worried about how hot they're getting.

[judgecrater]

Their advantage is accuracy. Unless you’re doing a build for accuracy/precision, no point. A chrome lined barrel will hold up better.

Chrome lined is more durable and resists neglect. Long ago the chrome lining was inconsistent and had accuracy problems. I am guessing they are much better these days.

[prepare]

Once you have determined the intended purpose or specific use for your rifle build the next step is barrel selection.

Are you talking duty grade, precision, or general purpose?

Most duty grade barrels are 4150 CMV due to increased service life because 4150 CMV properties handle extreme heat better than 416 R.

That said most civilian shooters are not shooting sustained high rates of fire to reach reach the extreme temperatures so the service life factor may be a moot point.

[Vegas]

Vegas, I bet you clean it and it still shoots sub moa. I would also try before you clean. And I wouldn't ultra clean it, id just clean it and keep the benefit of it being broken in a bit.

PB

I’ll probably give that a try for science purposes I would not be surprised if it was still sub moa. Will be interesting to see what the cleaning does.


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[DG23]

Unless you're doing bench or something, I can't see any real world advantage. Chrome lined barrels have gotten so good in the last few decades. At a bare minimum, you're going to have to be using match grade ammunition, or even handloads, to appreciate the difference.

Also keep in mind that not all stainless barrels are created equal. You can get cheap ones for like a hundred bucks or something, and obviously that's not going to benefit you anything. Might as well just go CMV for the durability.

That's another thing about stainless. You have to handle them with kid gloves because the metals have lower working temperatures. They shoot out much faster, especially considering what kind of groups people need them to hold to keep their edge over chrome, and you have to shoot slower and always be worried about how hot they're getting.

How many match grade SS barrels do you own in 5.56 / .223?

Cause I can't agree with about half of what you said above.

[DG23]

Once you have determined the intended purpose or specific use for your rifle build the next step is barrel selection.

Are you talking duty grade, precision, or general purpose?

Most duty grade barrels are 4150 CMV due to increased service life because 4150 CMV properties handle extreme heat better than 416 R.

That said most civilian shooters are not shooting sustained high rates of fire to reach reach the extreme temperatures so the service life factor may be a moot point.

This + How many super skinny SS AR type barrels does one generally see? Takes a lot longer to heat up a heavy barrel...

More than a few times over the years Colt has offered AR barrels that were without a chrome lined bore. Same steel they used in their lined barrels but less the chrome... They had a reason for doing so.

[okie]

Chrome lined is more durable and resists neglect. Long ago the chrome lining was inconsistent and had accuracy problems. I am guessing they are much better these days.

Drastic improvements have been made for sure. A guy a while back did a pretty large scale test with M4A1 barrels showing very impressive results. Real world, not much difference anymore. For non precision shooting, probably none. That is, if you're not shooting from a bipod with a scope, and taking very precise shots.

[MistWolf]

This + How many super skinny SS AR type barrels does one generally see? Takes a lot longer to heat up a heavy barrel...

It takes more heat to bring a heavy barrel up to the same temperature as a light barrel. It's like filling a large bucket with water and a smaller bucket of water. It takes more water to fill a 10 gallon bucket than it does a 5 gallon bucket.

Stainless steel barrels and CMV barrels hold their precision differently. Years ago, I read an article that a CMV barrel will initially be more precise than a SS barrel, but the SS barrel holds it's precision longer.

As a CMV barrel is used, the throat wears slowly and groups gradually open up until it reaches a point it's no longer precise enough for the job. But the barrel can be pulled and used on, say a training AR where 2 MOA is acceptable.

On the other hand, SS barrels work harden and retain their precision. Groups stay the same size- until chunks of rifling break away at the throat. When that happens, the SS barrel loses precision suddenly and are done.

Another difference is the CMV barrel can be cut at the chamber end and rechambered & throated, or used on another rifle where such precision isn't needed. The SS barrel must be rechambered & throated.