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Thread: I Think I Want A Mirrorless Camera

  1. #1
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    I Think I Want A Mirrorless Camera

    My camera is a Nikon DX1 which is as heavy as an anvil, been through the repair shop a few times, on it's fourth or fifth battery pack and for the third time, needs a new charger. I love it, but it's time for a new camera. I haven't kept up with the newest developments, so I went online for a crash course and mirrorless cameras, which I know nothing about, caught my attention. I thought about starting a DSLR vs Mirrorless thread, but as DSLRs are being phased out, I'm not sure it's worth pursuing.

    It looks like I want a mirrorless camera so I started this discussion to learn more. I've never used one, let alone actually touched one. I'd like to hear from anyone with experience with mirrorless cameras, why you chose mirrorless or why you didn't- basically, what's The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

    I also encourage anyone with questions to ask.

    I've been shooting with a Nikon since the early 80s, but I'd like to hear about other makes.

    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    I Think I Want A Mirrorless Camera

    My 1DX3 operates as both mirrored and mirrorless. The real necessity is to have good glass. Most any camera can take excellent pictures with good glass.

    Mirrorless doesn’t impress me as anything but a way to get you to spend more money on new glass.

    Cameras are tools just like rifles. It takes knowledge, skill and practice to yield excellent results.

    There you have my opinion on the matter.
    Last edited by HKGuns; 10-28-21 at 21:36.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKGuns View Post
    My 1DX3 operates as both mirrored and mirrorless. The real necessity is to have good glass. Most any camera can take excellent pictures with good glass.

    Mirrorless doesn’t impress me as anything but a way to get you to spend more money on new glass.

    Cameras are tools just like rifles. It takes knowledge, skill and practice to yield excellent results.

    There you have my opinion on the matter.
    The 1D series of cameras are all EF lens cameras, the mirrorless bodies all use the RF. Mirror lockup isn't the same thing, and while I do love the 1D models for their absolute durability and beastly batteries, they are no longer cutting edge. The new RF glass is cleaner, and the sensors are better due to mounting and interface (according to Canon).

    What I don't like is that the R5 out performs the R3 in image size, which is what certain clients are demanding. No one ever says an image size is too high of quality. The R5 across the board seems to be the premier camera for Pros, while the R3 takes the pro look and adds very little (other than half the resolution).

    For guys like HKGuns, and other pros, I think we are going to be forced to play the waiting game from Canon as they build up the R1. At this point, most cameras (mirrorless) are able to do 20FPS (frames per second), if not 30. Cameras like the R5 are also giving 8K screen grabs as an option. Canon needs to have the R1 pulling down large FPS and large resolution.

    I will say that I had concern on how the autofocus was going to be, but I'm highly impressed with how it does (again on the R5). What I don't like is the camera layout and control interface. I am extremely comfortable using the 1D body cameras, and while its the finished product is what matters, swapping over to the R5 is a little more than inconvenient.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  4. #4
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    What kind of photography?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    My camera is a Nikon DX1 which is as heavy as an anvil, been through the repair shop a few times, on it's fourth or fifth battery pack and for the third time, needs a new charger. I love it, but it's time for a new camera. I haven't kept up with the newest developments, so I went online for a crash course and mirrorless cameras, which I know nothing about, caught my attention. I thought about starting a DSLR vs Mirrorless thread, but as DSLRs are being phased out, I'm not sure it's worth pursuing.

    It looks like I want a mirrorless camera so I started this discussion to learn more. I've never used one, let alone actually touched one. I'd like to hear from anyone with experience with mirrorless cameras, why you chose mirrorless or why you didn't- basically, what's The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

    I also encourage anyone with questions to ask.

    I've been shooting with a Nikon since the early 80s, but I'd like to hear about other makes.

    Thanks
    I can't help you at all on the Nikon side of things, I haven't touched a Nikon since the 90s, and a girlfriend ended up stealing it, but of course that is another story. That girl was crazy.

    With Canon the easiest way to tell what is or isn't a mirrorless camera is if it starts with an R (with a few small body exceptions). Canon has been explaining for some time now their mirrorless cameras are more than just mirrorless. They are a new way of building cameras and are using all new technology. To give you an example of how substantial the difference is, I'll drop some specs below:

    Canon 1Dx3 (which is a phenomenal camera and was considered the top of the line)
    Digic X processor (canons top of the line processor)
    191 Auto Focus points
    Image stabilization available only via lens
    20 megapixel
    CMOS sensor
    Best battery available
    5.5k video
    Resolution size of 5472 x 2886
    Best weather proofing around, this is the camera you take to the Congo or the Artic.


    Canon R5 not quite top of the line, but beats everything else canon makes via resolution and features
    Digic X processor same as the 1Dx3
    5,940 Auto Focus points which are each selectable
    Image stabilization via 5 axis in body which provides up to 8 stops of camera shake (use lens and in body stabilization if available) That allows for much lower light shooting indoors or out
    44.8 Mega Pixel lens (making it a working pros dream)
    Dual Pixel CMOS sensor (something the older cameras couldn't do due to lens to mirror mounting space)
    generic battery with much lower life than the 1D larger batteries, most pros are buying a grip which makes vertical shooting easier and also allows for two batteries to be used.
    Resolution size of 8192 x 5464
    Body is NOT up to 1D standards (nothing else is), but is still considered weatherproof
    Bluetooth and Wifi are standard
    8K video




    Again with the above I want to point out the 1D series cameras have always been the premier camera body which Canon makes, and they cost roughly $8,000. The Canon R5 is $3,900, which is still no small amount of change, but you can still buy two of them for the price of the 1Dx3. The 1D mirrorless body will probably be called the R1, and I'm sure that will also be around $8k or higher. The R1 and 1D bodies are for photographers who make a living with their tools. It doesn't make them the best camera for most people, though showing up with a few of them does tend to give bragging rights.

    Very recently I traded in ALL of my Canon non-mirrorless bodies (a few various 1D models), and with the technology increases, those bodies were worth very little. The L lens (canons top of the line lenses are "L" models) brought much more money, but to be honest, since the old EF platform is dead, they were worth much less than I liked. The only lens I kept was my trusty 600mm F4 L EF lens, and I had to pick up an adapter to use it.

    My recommendation to pro photographers, meaning guys actually making a good chunk of money is to make sure your gear is paid off, that you have made a solid return on your camera to get its full worth, and then look at changing. If needed, you can use an adapter like guys did 30 years ago switching to digital. They kept a bunch of the old F mount lenses and used them until they trusted and saw benefit to the new (at that time) EF body cameras. Its a tax write off, but its still going to be expensive to make the change. I waited for as long as a possibly could before making the change. If you are shooting portraits all day long in a mall, you don't need the new bodies. I didn't think I needed the new body and lenses, then I did a shoot for one of the largest weapon manufacturers and when they got the 20+ MP resolution files, they asked for the full size ones... That was the end of my waffling or being on the fence.

    Sorry for rambling on for so long, this probably would have worked better over beers and burgers, but alas here we are on the internet instead. I can sum it up by saying mirrorless is where its at. I can cry about it, but it won't change anything. The image quality justified the purchase, and everything else is just gravy. I find I do use a bunch of the new features, but I'm still waiting for the R1 to come out. I want the beast feel back in my hands again.

    Thanks for reading down this far!
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple View Post
    What kind of photography?
    At the end of the day, the newer built mirrorless cameras are going to beat anything else (meaning price for price and body for body). Its simply newer technology, and I don't think any of the major players are going to manufacturer any more mirror bodied cameras. There just isn't a need for the old tech. Five years from now we won't be seeing anything but low end mirror bodies being used, if even that.

    I do agree that action versus portrait are two different animals, but in the case of Canon, the R5 does both better than my 1D bodies ever could. Again, I think its just technological advancement.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  7. #7
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    By coincidence, just got a Sony a6600. So far, very happy with it. My full sized Nikon DSLR never gets used due to it's size and weight. Now that have the Sony, and have seen what it's capable, gonna get rid of the Nikon. The Sony is way more camera than I could ever need, but I prefer to grow up to it vs be/feel limited. For a lot less $, others in the 6000 line up offer a better bargain for sure.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    The 1D series of cameras are all EF lens cameras, the mirrorless bodies all use the RF. Mirror lockup isn't the same thing, and while I do love the 1D models for their absolute durability and beastly batteries, they are no longer cutting edge. The new RF glass is cleaner, and the sensors are better due to mounting and interface (according to Canon).

    What I don't like is that the R5 out performs the R3 in image size, which is what certain clients are demanding. No one ever says an image size is too high of quality. The R5 across the board seems to be the premier camera for Pros, while the R3 takes the pro look and adds very little (other than half the resolution).

    For guys like HKGuns, and other pros, I think we are going to be forced to play the waiting game from Canon as they build up the R1. At this point, most cameras (mirrorless) are able to do 20FPS (frames per second), if not 30. Cameras like the R5 are also giving 8K screen grabs as an option. Canon needs to have the R1 pulling down large FPS and large resolution.

    I will say that I had concern on how the autofocus was going to be, but I'm highly impressed with how it does (again on the R5). What I don't like is the camera layout and control interface. I am extremely comfortable using the 1D body cameras, and while its the finished product is what matters, swapping over to the R5 is a little more than inconvenient.
    I'll be retired in ~2 years unless I die playing in traffic before then. I'm simply not willing to spend the coin Canon is asking to change out all of my glass and I could easily afford it. Those litte "R" bodies are cute and I can absolutely see why you would have issues swapping back and forth.

    I'm not married to mirrors by any stretch and I like the eye and face focus features of the 1DX3 in video and live view modes. If Canon produce an R1 it better be 1D form factor and be able to take EF lenses.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKGuns View Post
    I'll be retired in ~2 years unless I die playing in traffic before then. I'm simply not willing to spend the coin Canon is asking to change out all of my glass and I could easily afford it. Those litte "R" bodies are cute and I can absolutely see why you would have issues swapping back and forth.

    I'm not married to mirrors by any stretch and I like the eye and face focus features of the 1DX3 in video and live view modes. If Canon produce an R1 it better be 1D form factor and be able to take EF lenses.
    Eye focus is a pretty big advancement, and I'm shocked at how well it locks on in its latest iterations.

    There won't be another 1Dx body made by Canon, the line up dies with the 1Dx3. The R1 will be the start of what you and I consider 1D bodies, and they are only going to come with the RF lens mounts. Not the end of the world when the adapters work so well, but I'm guessing you like adapters about as much as I do. I make the exception for the 600L, but only because it holds a special place in my heart.

    Whats odd to me, is that the auto iso still plays by the old style rules of 1/x where as x=focal length. I would much rather have an option where the camera sensor is reading "focus" and stability, and dropping the iso to a lower yet functional setting.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


    Flickr Tumblr Facebook Instagram RECOILMAGAZINE OFF GRID RECOIL WEB

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    Eye focus is a pretty big advancement, and I'm shocked at how well it locks on in its latest iterations.

    There won't be another 1Dx body made by Canon, the line up dies with the 1Dx3. The R1 will be the start of what you and I consider 1D bodies, and they are only going to come with the RF lens mounts. Not the end of the world when the adapters work so well, but I'm guessing you like adapters about as much as I do. I make the exception for the 600L, but only because it holds a special place in my heart.

    Whats odd to me, is that the auto iso still plays by the old style rules of 1/x where as x=focal length. I would much rather have an option where the camera sensor is reading "focus" and stability, and dropping the iso to a lower yet functional setting.
    Which is exactly why I upgraded my perfectly functional 1DIV to the 1DX3.

    Yeah, I'll use adapters (air only, no glass) on my manual focus vintage glass out of necessity, otherwise, not so much. One of the fun things I discovered during the pandemic is some really great vintage glass. (Super Takumars / Pentacon / Yashinon / Helios)

    The manual focus forces me to slow down and think more about what I am doing. I also got into buying nasty lenses with fungus cheap, tearing them apart and restoring them to as new condition.

    The character of the photo's taken with these lenses is astounding and can also inspire my creative side, which is difficult.






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