Recomend me a rifle/caliber for Elk and Deer

[JiminAZ]

Not in 308 although I have a box I've been meaning to try. Only in 243.

also been meaning to try in 7mm Rem Mag.

Takes awhile to draw an elk tag these days. Having a lot of kids helps though.

[AndyLate]

The ELDX is an efficient killer because it grenades inside. I have read many threads with people complaining of no exit but they aren't complaining that the animal wandered off to die somewhere else.

Haven't had any animal go more than 20 yards with an ELDX foreward of the diaphragm. I like it because it does grenade/kill, and shot placement is not always optimal with youth/new hunters. Hell in the field shot placement is not always optimal for experienced hunters too.

Yes solids I mean solid copper like the Barnes TSX and TTSX.

So it may seem like something of a contradiction, but I'm trying to find an answer for the OP that involves the right combo of recoil/killing power/range.

Until we know more from the OP on ranges and accuracy capabilities it's hard to hit that optimum so I guess I'm just giving him things to think about.

Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate what you wrote and was seeking that clarification.

Andy

[pinzgauer]

Jim have you tried the solids in 308? I was reading on another forum where guys were pushing 130 TSX over 3000 FPS in the 308 and it was a hammer.

I just started loading the 130 TTSX in 308 at close to 270 130g velocities (3050 fps, if I recall).

Unlike traditional bullets, the no-lead ttsx has higher sectional density and ballistics for the 130g. (Traditional 130 grain in 308 is pretty stubby)

I've done similar in 708 and 280 with the 120g ttsx. (Though with 280 I can easily get 140s to the same speed as my classic 270 benchmark load of 130g at 3100fps)

The buck I shot a couple of weeks ago with 130g ttsx in 308 was through and through. At first glance not a big exit hole, but big enough (1").

Inside the lungs were vaporized goo. Deer ran maybe 15 yards.

I do not understand the comments about exploding. I want penetration with expansion, but want the bullet to stay intact. And generally want two holes. Lead free is a plus. (Son is a falconer and tiny fragments of lead are fatal to hawks.)

Decades ago I used to hunt with exposed lead spire points. I guess you could say they exploded. Bullets fragmented, often times just found the jacket.

I shifted to heavier constructed 165g grand slams and saw great results with deer dropping in their tracks. Similar early concept to the current bonded bullets and controlled expansion.

But with the option to get close to 270 trajectory in 308 with similar velocities, ttsx will be my pick for now.

BTW, I do not think of tsx and ttsx as "solids". It threw me when posters above referred to them as solids. Solids are all gilding metal, but are not hollow point and are normally blunt/round nosed. (Heavy game calibers, anyway)

[pinzgauer]

Also, I'm not a fan of going too light in caliber for youth / women rifles.

708/creedmoor/6.5x55 are as light as I would consider. All are mild recoil even in light rifles. Yet are still capable of elk size game.

The trick I learned with my kids is to go down one or two bullet weights and very mild loads that shoot to the same point of impact as the hunting load. Let them shoot to their hearts content, get some muscle memory on handling the rifle, and develop confidence.

And only after that work up to hunting loads.

No one notices recoil when hunting even on follow-up shots.

Just don't put them on a bench hunched over with the rifle on bags with hunting loads as that's kind of maximum recoil. Let them shoot sitting, standing, etc to develop confidence with the full power load.

So for deer + elk I'm still back to 270/280/30-06. With 280 being the sweet spot for bullet and ballistics for those two game.

Seven rem mag is a fine cartridge and certainly superior in ballistics, but it also has enough additional recoil I would not consider it for the OP's use case.

[Disciple]

Unlike traditional bullets, the no-lead ttsx has higher sectional density and ballistics for the 130g. (Traditional 130 grain in 308 is pretty stubby)

Sectional density is the same, the lead-free bullet is simply longer.

[pinzgauer]

Sectional density is the same, the lead-free bullet is simply longer.

I could be confused on that, though I thought longer bullets of the same rate had higher sectional density? It might be the long for caliber penetration effect I'm thinking of.

For sure the longer ttsx has significantly better ballistics than the 130 grain spirepoint and boat tails.

[JiminAZ]

Yes the way I used the term "solids" is perhaps a misnomer. As you say, historically the term refers to big game bullets but with the evolution of solid copper bullets the nomenclature has not evolved with it. I think of TTSX and the like as "solids" simply because there is no jacket to separate/debond.

Sectional Density is simply the weight of the bullet divided by its frontal area. So the value of SD is independent of bullet length. If you stick with one metallurgy, as you get longer you get heavier so SD goes up. Change metals and that logic doesn't apply.

I am now very interested in using 130 TTSX in 308, as I have some 308's that are very accurate and this could be what gets them back in the game for me. What do you need for twist rate to stabilize them?

Also makes me wonder what would happen with 7-08 and a lighter/longer copper bullet.

[Todd.K]

The trick I learned with my kids is to go down one or two bullet weights and very mild loads that shoot to the same point of impact as the hunting load. Let them shoot to their hearts content, get some muscle memory on handling the rifle, and develop confidence.

And only after that work up to hunting loads.

Good advice here. I recall seeing some youth hunting loads in 7-08, 308, 270 etc that were a lighter bullet loaded at a reduced velocity. Non handloaders could try to find something like that for practice.

[graffex]

Hard to beat .300 win mag IMO. 30-06 also I’d you don’t plan on killing elk past like 400 or have a good angle.

Edit: missed the wife part first go around �� 30-06 with a brake would be good.

[RUTGERS95]

30-06 due to game size, bullet selection and loading options. 30-06 is almost perfect for any larger game in NA