6.5 Creedmor - Palma style brass

**markm** · 12-08-21, 07:11

How does the neck tension feel when seating? We run that K&M arbor press and you can really feel any oddball neck tensions when seating.

I put a light chamfer on the mouths with the lyman VLD chamfer tool for what it's worth. When I forgot to do that on a run of .308, I think... I was getting wild neck seating feels due to fighting the inconsistent mouths on the brass.

**T2C** · 12-08-21, 08:21

I can't tell any difference in pressure when seating the bullets with a RCBS Rock Chucker IV. I am thinking about purchasing an instrument to measure pressure required to push the bullet into an empty cartridge case after I seat the bullet on the press.

I think one of the issues I need to address is I am not seeing muzzle velocities comparable to those published in reloading manuals sold by powder and bullet manufacturers. I have been reloading with Varget, IMR 4350 and RL16. Factory Hornady ammunition muzzle velocities I've recorded are within 10 fps of published data.

I still have a great deal to learn about reloading ammunition for shooting beyond 600 yards.

**markm** · 12-08-21, 08:43

That K&M press can attach a scale to measure seating pressure. I would never go that looney into this crap though. You can get way too far into the weed with instrumentation and measuring every little thing. Pretty soon it's no longer enjoyable.

**mRad** · 12-08-21, 08:51

I’d agree with Mark here. First learn how to tune the load with powder charge, then seating depth. If you can’t get something to shoot as well and consistent as factory ammo, your process is in need of review.

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**T2C** · 12-08-21, 17:38

Originally Posted by mRad

I’d agree with Mark here. First learn how to tune the load with powder charge, then seating depth. If you can’t get something to shoot as well and consistent as factory ammo, your process is in need of review.

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There's no doubt about that. I have a lot to learn.

I shot groups again and I am currently seeing 0.75 MOA at 300 yards. My goal is to achieve 0.5 MOA.

**T2C** · 12-19-21, 21:43

I shot this reload in cold weather through my RPR and had decent results.

140g Barnes Matchburner bullet
41.5g RL16
Federal GM # 210M Match primer
Hornady once fired brass
2.810" C.O.L.

I had a 15 mph wind gusting to 25 mph at 170 degrees relative, it was sunny and the temperature was 34 degrees. I was verifying zero shift after I replaced the Ruger stock with a heavily modified Magpul PRS Gen 3 stock. I managed to shoot a pair of 5 shot groups that measured 3/8" wide x 9/16" high at 100 yards. I believe the wind gusts caused the vertical stringing.

**308sako** · 12-19-21, 22:40

Originally Posted by mRad

Do what you want, no skin off my back. I’m sure you’re going to come up with something acceptable either way.

Some things I’ve learned:

Changing brass changes volume, so you’re changing the charge weight by proxy.

Brass thicknesses vary in the neck, so changing neck tension changes your pressure curve, which changes your charge by proxy.

Changing primers more or less changes behavior of the powder, so you’re changing charge weight and burn rate by proxy.

All bullets are depth sensitive, some more than others.

There is no way to cheat when finding an optimal load.

Hell, even changing the degree on your chamfer can make a huge difference in seating force.

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Wow someone who understands internal ballistics!

A pleasure to read some knowledge based on thought or experience.

That said The OP and companion are far from virgins... Regarding the 6.5 Creedmoor, quality barrel, quality bullets, appropriate burning rate powder and a velocity node for the harmonic...

I have 3 6.5 Creedmoors and one a Sako sporter shoots best with 123's and Winchester 760, the other two a 40X and Remington 700 LOVE IMR 4350 not H4350 or IMR 4451! Just what they like. My velocity node is at 2810 ft/secs in the Rem's. 26" Wiseman barrel'as smithed by Bill himself. Best groups have been in the amazing zone. Quite literally yesterday had an opportunity to shoot paper at 1,000 yards. Result, Berger 140 Hybrids put 5 rounds into 9.5" in reasonably challenging wind. Hornady brass and Cci large rifle primers, a lot which gave better SD's and ES than the BR version. FWIW we chronograph ed with a Lab radar unit and the 6 shot string relative to the mentioned group was a 4.4 SD, with an ES of 9 ft/sec.

Just don't give up on a wonderful cartridge.

**mRad** · 12-19-21, 22:51

Originally Posted by 308sako

Wow someone who understands internal ballistics!

A pleasure to read some knowledge based on thought or experience.

That said The OP and companion are far from virgins... Regarding the 6.5 Creedmoor, quality barrel, quality bullets, appropriate burning rate powder and a velocity node for the harmonic...

I have 3 6.5 Creedmoors and one a Sako sporter shoots best with 123's and Winchester 760, the other two a 40X and Remington 700 LOVE IMR 4350 not H4350 or IMR 4451! Just what they like. My velocity node is at 2810 ft/secs in the Rem's. 26" Wiseman barrel'as smithed by Bill himself. Best groups have been in the amazing zone. Quite literally yesterday had an opportunity to shoot paper at 1,000 yards. Result, Berger 140 Hybrids put 5 rounds into 9.5" in reasonably challenging wind.

Just don't give up on a wonderful cartridge.

It is a solid little cartridge, especially when we give it barrel length. There is just a good balance with the 6.5mm stuff.

I started with a 6.5-284 back in 2004-2005, killed many prairie dogs with it, shot a few F-Class matches with it and found my barrel dead at 900 rounds. Wasn’t long the 6.5x47 came along….awesome cartridge and easy to get it to do what you wanted it to, but a bit slow.

I’ve also had several .260s and .260AIs. But the little Creedmoor seems to just seems to be a good compromise with descent components, enough magazine room, good velocity, and fair barrel life. I’ve only got one right now, on a 700 as well a the 6mm version on a custom I use for a PRS gun (though not loaded to full speed).

Currently, dabbling with a few 6.5 PRC rifles. Well, one is a carbon barrel for my PRS gun to lighten it up for hunting. Man, that is a great case and now supported by Lapua and ADG. Allegedly, better barrel life than the old 6.5-284, but more speed.

I am surprised that your rifles like the IMR powder over the Hogdon, but rifles like what they like! I’ve got a few rifles that prefer 8208XBR over Varget. It’s not uncommon to see a .308 tune better with 4064 than Varget either. Feed them what they like and rock on!

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**T2C** · 12-19-21, 23:13

Originally Posted by 308sako

Wow someone who understands internal ballistics!

A pleasure to read some knowledge based on thought or experience.

That said The OP and companion are far from virgins... Regarding the 6.5 Creedmoor, quality barrel, quality bullets, appropriate burning rate powder and a velocity node for the harmonic...

I have 3 6.5 Creedmoors and one a Sako sporter shoots best with 123's and Winchester 760, the other two a 40X and Remington 700 LOVE IMR 4350 not H4350 or IMR 4451! Just what they like. My velocity node is at 2810 ft/secs in the Rem's. 26" Wiseman barrel'as smithed by Bill himself. Best groups have been in the amazing zone. Quite literally yesterday had an opportunity to shoot paper at 1,000 yards. Result, Berger 140 Hybrids put 5 rounds into 9.5" in reasonably challenging wind. Hornady brass and Cci large rifle primers, a lot which gave better SD's and ES than the BR version. FWIW we chronograph ed with a Lab radar unit and the 6 shot string relative to the mentioned group was a 4.4 SD, with an ES of 9 ft/sec.

Just don't give up on a wonderful cartridge.

From your post, I got the impression the 123g bullets chronographed at 2810 fps. How fast were the 140g Hybrids you shot at 1,000 yards going?