FBI Raids home of Colorado Conservative Mom/Activist

[HKGuns]

I’m not taking offense to that… but will call you out on both points.

There are plenty of good Federal L/E, who would push back when warranted. I have a coworker who refused to ask vaccination status/refuse people who are not vaccinated (foreign nationals coming over for non-essential reasons… per the current shitshow guidance that Biden put out). He felt it went against the constitution to ask. While I disagree, when you look at other diseases in somewhat recent history, he was also in the group that refused to get the vaccine. Most of us all feel that if those officers get fired, there will be months of legal fights, but they will likely get paid (back pay and damages) and their job back. However, the officer who said he wouldn’t follow those orders… he likely won’t. It’s hard to argue that when the first set of Grounds of Inadmissibility is related to health (§212(a)(1)).

Now, let’s say good old Biden decides to make a mandate that all persons coming into the US are vaccinated… to include US citizens. And he decides that he wants us to turn US citizens away for that reason (could easily be done under Customs law; actually would be illegal for me to do under Immigration law unless I have a good belief that person got their citizenship thru fraud). You would see majority of officers say not just no… but “hell, no!” I’d put it at more of we would just see a US passport or other document, and not ask… than to keep someone out of their own country. Might seem like we’re just a bunch of Federal L/E morons, but majority of us actually take our jobs seriously.

Another example that is more locally specific, but we had a manager who directed us to cuff all persons who matched any NCIC hit… no ifs/ands/buts. A few of the officers refused, myself included, because there are a number of reasons not to do it… especially with all the “deescalation” training CBP/DHS is putting out. If we are supposed to decide whether or not someone is admissible to the US… we don’t have the ability to make a judgement call like this? Basically, he was taking away our discretion… and I was threatened with reprimand if I didn’t do it. Had a situation come up, which neither myself or the other officer could come up with a legit reason to cuff the guy… and I didn’t.

Are we not good officers? Because we pushed back when it wasn’t right, and eventually got his guidance rescinded for one that didn’t put the traveling public in such a bad spot… 9 times out of 10, for zero reason. Just asking because we were fed crap for it… even yelled at for our decision… and didn’t just “follow orders.”

For way too much Federal L/E… I guess you are not that familiar with the southern border. BP and CBP are well understaffed down there… to the point that they pull people from the northern border (which isn’t that much better staffed) and airports/seaports for temporary deployment down there whenever a migrant caravan is known to be coming. BP and CBP is used mainly for a foot in the door Federal L/E job, and then transferring to another agency… which is part of the reason for a high turnover rate.

And that doesn’t consider probably about 30-40% of us (combined CBP and BP, but a better chunk of that is BP) who may be forced off the frontline because of the vaccine mandate. Or the consideration that CBP is going to have a large amount of retirements in 2028… mainly senior officers from legacy agencies (USCS and INS)… because of L/E retirement. If Congress decides to allow those officers to buy back non-L/E time in, even sooner.

For those who get the reference, the border is going to be looking like an episode of South Park… just minus Butters bringing Mexicans back to Mexico.

The mess that is our Southern border, as best I can tell, falls squarely on the shoulder's of the idiot usurper in chief and the policies of his idiot minions he brought in to help him remember his name and keep him off the little girls.

I don't begrudge the agents in CPB getting the resources needed to keep the illegals out of the Country. If only from a cost perspective, the more we keep out the less we spend feeding, clothing, transporting and housing them. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out paying more agents is far more affordable than the Billions spent today on the entire fiasco and it ought to piss the Agents under the gun down there off enough to make them quit.

If there weren't so many fractured Federal agencies with LE powers, it might be easier to manage a surge of resource pool where it is needed. (Not that these cats care or would help anyway.)

You're forgetting about the numerous agencies that exist, with LE powers. Below are only a few of the many Federal Agencies with LE powers.

- DOA department of protective operations division
- US Forrest Service LE and Investigations
- NIH Police
- US Park Ranger
- US Park Police
- Diplomatic Security Service
- IRS Enforcement
- DEA
-ATF

There are literally so many, no-one even knows where to start to come up with a complete list.

You cite two examples, where were the good agents when all of Trump's allies were greeted with Dawn raids? Where were the good agents who should have questioned spying on a political campaign using the FISA court? Where were the good agents when the subject of this thread's home was raided? This is political intimidation, in plain sight and when our Federal agencies behave like this, we are no better than the Communists in China or Russia. Need a warrant? Lie to the court as we saw done with the FISA court used against Trump for political purposes. ALL WITH ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY. People should be in jail for what happened and the people in jail for that 4 year lie total ZERO.

[Entryteam]

The mess that is our Southern border, as best I can tell, falls squarely on the shoulder's of the idiot usurper in chief and the policies of his idiot minions he brought in to help him remember his name and keep him off the little girls.

I don't begrudge the agents in CPB getting the resources needed to keep the illegals out of the Country. If only from a cost perspective, the more we keep out the less we spend feeding, clothing, transporting and housing them. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out paying more agents is far more affordable than the Billions spent today on the entire fiasco and it ought to piss the Agents under the gun down there off enough to make them quit.

If there weren't so many fractured Federal agencies with LE powers, it might be easier to manage a surge of resource pool where it is needed. (Not that these cats care or would help anyway.)

You're forgetting about the numerous agencies that exist, with LE powers. Below are only a few of the many Federal Agencies with LE powers.

- DOA department of protective operations division
- US Forrest Service LE and Investigations
- NIH Police
- US Park Ranger
- US Park Police
- Diplomatic Security Service
- IRS Enforcement
- DEA
-ATF

There are literally so many, no-one even knows where to start to come up with a complete list.

You cite two examples, where were the good agents when all of Trump's allies were greeted with Dawn raids? Where were the good agents who should have questioned spying on a political campaign using the FISA court? Where were the good agents when the subject of this thread's home was raided? This is political intimidation, in plain sight and when our Federal agencies behave like this, we are no better than the Communists in China or Russia. Need a warrant? Lie to the court as we saw done with the FISA court used against Trump for political purposes. ALL WITH ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY. People should be in jail for what happened and the people in jail for that 4 year lie total ZERO.

There aren't any. When ANY Fed pats you softly on the back with a smile on his face... he's looking for a soft place to put the knife. NEVER fall for it.

[Screwball]

The mess that is our Southern border, as best I can tell, falls squarely on the shoulder's of the idiot usurper in chief and the policies of his idiot minions he brought in to help him remember his name and keep him off the little girls.

I don't begrudge the agents in CPB getting the resources needed to keep the illegals out of the Country. If only from a cost perspective, the more we keep out the less we spend feeding, clothing, transporting and housing them. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out paying more agents is far more affordable than the Billions spent today on the entire fiasco and it ought to piss the Agents under the gun down there off enough to make them quit.

Was a mess prior to Biden… but at least Trump supported us. Not “we are going to start calling them ‘non-citizens’ instead of ‘aliens’ because they have feelings.” While I get some people think it is demeaning, but I learned that when someone comes up… they are an alien. Present something other than a US passport… they are an intending immigrant until they prove otherwise. How I was taught, as well as a lot of other officers.

Keeping people out is only part of what we do. There is a whole lot of shit that we keep out of the country, besides illegal immigrants. But that is sort of an issue when someone argues that X agency should be dissolved.

If there weren't so many fractured Federal agencies with LE powers, it might be easier to manage a surge of resource pool where it is needed. (Not that these cats care or would help anyway.)

You're forgetting about the numerous agencies that exist, with LE powers. Below are only a few of the many Federal Agencies with LE powers.

- DOA department of protective operations division
- US Forrest Service LE and Investigations
- NIH Police
- US Park Ranger
- US Park Police
- Diplomatic Security Service
- IRS Enforcement
- DEA
-ATF

There are literally so many, no-one even knows where to start to come up with a complete list.

So, you are arguing for a single Federal police agency, with complete jurisdiction in everything? Because if you don’t want individual agencies… that is the “answer.”

Funding. Yea, there really isn’t going to be much to fix that shitshow… especially in a two party system. One doesn’t get its way, shutdown happens. And it does suck to have to work, but not get paid.

For your list…

-didn’t know USDA had a sworn arm of the agency, but I doubt they are kicking down doors (we enforce laws for them)
-Forest Service… we saw their trailer/walls at FLETC, without anyone going thru… but considering the amount of forests, and how easily it is for a criminal to hide out in remote locations, sworn personnel isn’t a bad idea
-NIH… they have their own security for their buildings, which probably is along the same lines of USDA
-US Parks… similar reasons to Forest Service, but they are also inforcing laws related to hunting/poaching… which is another reason they should be sworn/armed
-DSS not only protects our people abroad (think 16 Hours… the non-CIA contractors), but also deals with Visa/passport fraud
-IRS… depending on who it is, I’d think they would be better off using other agencies (or state/local), but I’ve been to an IRS building before, and the do also have uniformed personnel at their locations
-DEA and ATF… while you might have views of either of the agencies, the products they deal with do lend to them being sworn/armed a good quality

So, I looked thru your list, and noticed it was partially/likely pulled off the Wikipedia page for Federal law enforcement in the US. As mentioned, A LOT are specific security personnel for the buildings each agency has. Do I agree with that? I mean, you’d probably have easier just lumping everyone into FPS and making it one agency… but I’m sure there are specific things each agency wants their people to be aware of. But there are quite a few on that list that are not sworn L/E.

FinCEN is listed there… but they are a group from Treasury that track money movement. Taking $10,000 or more in/out of the country? You file a report to them, to record the specifics. If an irregularity pops up, they don’t go and kick in doors on it. It gets passed along to other agencies.

You cite two examples, where were the good agents when all of Trump's allies were greeted with Dawn raids? Where were the good agents who should have questioned spying on a political campaign using the FISA court? Where were the good agents when the subject of this thread's home was raided? This is political intimidation, in plain sight and when our Federal agencies behave like this, we are no better than the Communists in China or Russia. Need a warrant? Lie to the court as we saw done with the FISA court used against Trump for political purposes. ALL WITH ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY. People should be in jail for what happened and the people in jail for that 4 year lie total ZERO.

So… other than the political soapbox… what do you want me to say?

You want me to tell you there are persons in the US that had power, and use it to keep themselves out of the bad side of the headlines? Hell, I’m shocked that we heard as much as we did about Hillary’s servers. Did any of those decisions, either pro Clinton or against Trump, get made at the frontline level? Was there GL-10 level FBI agents calling any of those shots?

I’m not going back and forth on politics with you on here, being I really don’t have the desire to. But you are complaining about cabinet level decisions… and lumping it into by calling rank/file personnel the same.

[HKGuns]

Was a mess prior to Biden… but at least Trump supported us. Not “we are going to start calling them ‘non-citizens’ instead of ‘aliens’ because they have feelings.” While I get some people think it is demeaning, but I learned that when someone comes up… they are an alien. Present something other than a US passport… they are an intending immigrant until they prove otherwise. How I was taught, as well as a lot of other officers.

Keeping people out is only part of what we do. There is a whole lot of shit that we keep out of the country, besides illegal immigrants. But that is sort of an issue when someone argues that X agency should be dissolved.



So, you are arguing for a single Federal police agency, with complete jurisdiction in everything? Because if you don’t want individual agencies… that is the “answer.”

There is a literally a Grand Canyon between one and the many that exist today.

But this is pointless as nothing will change. The .gov employees are so numerous they are their own voting block.

[AndyLate]

There is a literally a Grand Canyon between one and the many that exist today.

But this is pointless as nothing will change. The .gov employees are so numerous they are their own voting block.

Largest workforce in the USA - 2,711,000(ish) employees...

Andy

[MistWolf]

Largest workforce in the USA - 2,711,000(ish) employees...

Andy

And it’s an exclusive club with good pay and benefits. Pretty soon, if you can’t work for some branch of the .gov or another, you won’t even qualify for UBI.

[ABNAK]

Largest workforce in the USA - 2,711,000(ish) employees...

You do know, right, that not anywhere near "most" of those employees vote the way you assume they do? Of course many do, but nowhere near what you think. That is also the total Federal workforce, not a specific LEO count.

I've advocated for the FBI to be completely disbanded, every-damn-one of them. Yes, even the "rank-and-file" ones Hannity fellates. There are no "good" FBI agents, and if you happen to be a one-off then too bad so sad, you chose the wrong path. Take your vaunted Quantico training and go work for the local county Sheriff's department, that's all you deserve.

That said, CBP, INS, Marshal's Service, and Secret Service all have justifiable missions. Rarely will you ever see those agencies entrapping people like the FBI as well as the infamous "lying to a Federal agent" charge (which should be removed from the books, a flat-out bullshit charge).

I have NEVER heard anyone who has had to work with the FBI (usually not by choice, but where they come in and say "We're in charge now") have anything good to say about them. Now if arrogant, self-serving, and smug are your idea of positive comments then maybe. Otherwise they are our Stasi, the sword-and-shield of the state.....they are very political and it DOES matter who is in power, they are NOT independent in their actions (like FOUR years of Trump where they actively and continually fought against him). The BATFAGS and DEA should be right behind, but let's start with the FBI.

[AndyLate]

You do know, right, that not anywhere near "most" of those employees vote the way you assume they do? Of course many do, but nowhere near what you think. That is also the total Federal workforce, not a specific LEO count.

I did not imply they voted in any way and my post was about as neutral as possible. Yes, the number is obviously the total count of employees.

Andy

[ABNAK]

I did not imply they voted in any way and my post was about as neutral as possible. Yes, the number is obviously the total count of employees.

Fair enough. I know a number of Federal employees who vote like we do. I'd say Federal workers vote roughly like the American public does: 50% + or -

[HKGuns]

You do know, right, that not anywhere near "most" of those employees vote the way you assume they do? Of course many do, but nowhere near what you think. That is also the total Federal workforce, not a specific LEO count.

I've advocated for the FBI to be completely disbanded, every-damn-one of them. Yes, even the "rank-and-file" ones Hannity fellates. There are no "good" FBI agents, and if you happen to be a one-off then too bad so sad, you chose the wrong path. Take your vaunted Quantico training and go work for the local county Sheriff's department, that's all you deserve.

That said, CBP, INS, Marshal's Service, and Secret Service all have justifiable missions. Rarely will you ever see those agencies entrapping people like the FBI as well as the infamous "lying to a Federal agent" charge (which should be removed from the books, a flat-out bullshit charge).

I have NEVER heard anyone who has had to work with the FBI (usually not by choice, but where they come in and say "We're in charge now") have anything good to say about them. Now if arrogant, self-serving, and smug are your idea of positive comments then maybe. Otherwise they are our Stasi, the sword-and-shield of the state.....they are very political and it DOES matter who is in power, they are NOT independent in their actions (like FOUR years of Trump where they actively and continually fought against him). The BATFAGS and DEA should be right behind, but let's start with the FBI.

People vote for their own self interests and to maintain the status quo.

Someone running to truly shrink government wouldn’t stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

It is so large, it is self sustaining.

While DC is admittedly a different animal, 93% of them voted for probably the worst candidate ever to run.