I am really struggling with LPVOs

[kwelz]

I have a couple guns with Accupower 1-8s on them. But honestly ina, having a harder and harder time justifying their use.

My first problem is the weight. By the time I add even a lightweight mount this thing is 2lbs. That is a lot of weight to add, even when positioned further back on the rifle.

Secondly I am a lot slower with them. As strange as it sounds I am faster with my ACOG than I am the LPVOs. Since I do almost no shooting past 75-100 yards the longer range advantage they offer really isn’t there for me.

Am I missing something, or am I really just trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole because it is the new hotness. I kind of feel like I would be better off with a couple magnifiers on my aimpoint micros.

[omegajb]

Are you having problems with the LPVO at 1x 8x or in between?

I leave mine at 1x 90% of the time which is almost as fast as a red dot for target acquisition but I can't leave it magnified and pick up a target.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[jesuvuah]

I have a couple guns with Accupower 1-8s on them. But honestly ina, having a harder and harder time justifying their use.

My first problem is the weight. By the time I add even a lightweight mount this thing is 2lbs. That is a lot of weight to add, even when positioned further back on the rifle.

Secondly I am a lot slower with them. As strange as it sounds I am faster with my ACOG than I am the LPVOs. Since I do almost no shooting past 75-100 yards the longer range advantage they offer really isn’t there for me.

Am I missing something, or am I really just trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole because it is the new hotness. I kind of feel like I would be better off with a couple magnifiers on my aimpoint micros.

I currently do not own a single lpvo.

I have rifles with RDOs, rifles with acogs, and rifles with higher power scopes

I also have zero issues running an acog at close range, and prefer their size and weight as compared to a lpvo. I have tried a lot of the lpvo out their, the last one being the accupower 1-8, and I always end up going back to my acog.

That being said, I know I am in the minority

Soli Deo Gloria

[Inkslinger]

If you’re not shooting past 100y, why even bother with a LPVO?

[Defaultmp3]

If you’re not shooting past 100y, why even bother with a LPVO?

If you're trying to hit much smaller targets at those ranges. As Chuck Pressburg argues, he sees the use of LPVOs on LE patrol rifles not to make hits on a reduced IPSC at 200 or 300 yards or a full size at 400 or 500 yards, but to put a bullet into the eye-socket of a threat that is peaking out from behind the back of a vehicle at 63 yards, while the threat is properly utilizing cover for the most part, only peeking out with a small bit of their face at a time. A magnifier behind an RDS/HWS may lack the proper reticle to provide enough info on holdovers to do it as easily.

Target acquisition should be just as fast with a LVPO as it is with a red dot. Plenty of evidence to support it (a bunch of vids on YT).

Maybe for flat range stuff. Start throwing in unorthodox shooting positions in full kit, and it will likely be much slower unless one puts in very significant practice, and even then, it's unlikely one will be just as fast compared to an RDS or HWS.

The problem might partially also do with the optic itself, the Accupowers aren't exactly renowned for their eyebox and optical performance (which is not to say that they suck, but just that they're not in the same league as some of the other LPVOs).

LPVOs and RDS/HWS with magnifier fulfill distinctly different roles, IMO. The RDS/HWS with magnifier will never come close to the low-light performance of an LPVO, particularly with an RDS, and also typically lacks a useful reticle to push it out to a longer range. The LPVO will almost always be more bulky, heavier, and generally slower in unorthodox positions. An ACOG with an RDS I have no experience with, but I imagine the main problem there is that the RDS will always be in a less than optimal spot, and BAC just isn't a good solution if you need any kind of precision, given the issues of phoria (was it Molon that did a test on that?). It might also suffer in unorthodox positions, depending on the model used and how tight its eyebox is.

[Mysteryman]

If you're trying to hit much smaller targets at those ranges. As Chuck Pressburg argues, he sees the use of LPVOs on LE patrol rifles not to make hits on a reduced IPSC at 200 or 300 yards or a full size at 400 or 500 yards, but to put a bullet into the eye-socket of a threat that is peaking out from behind the back of a vehicle at 63 yards, while the threat is properly utilizing cover for the most part, only peeking out with a small bit of their face at a time. A magnifier behind an RDS/HWS may lack the proper reticle to provide enough info on holdovers to do it as easily.

Maybe for flat range stuff. Start throwing in unorthodox shooting positions in full kit, and it will likely be much slower unless one puts in very significant practice, and even then, it's unlikely one will be just as fast compared to an RDS or HWS.

The problem might partially also do with the optic itself, the Accupowers aren't exactly renowned for their eyebox and optical performance (which is not to say that they suck, but just that they're not in the same league as some of the other LPVOs).

LPVOs and RDS/HWS with magnifier fulfill distinctly different roles, IMO. The RDS/HWS with magnifier will never come close to the low-light performance of an LPVO, particularly with an RDS, and also typically lacks a useful reticle to push it out to a longer range. The LPVO will almost always be more bulky, heavier, and generally slower in unorthodox positions. An ACOG with an RDS I have no experience with, but I imagine the main problem there is that the RDS will always be in a less than optimal spot, and BAC just isn't a good solution if you need any kind of precision, given the issues of phoria (was it Molon that did a test on that?). It might also suffer in unorthodox positions, depending on the model used and how tight its eyebox is.

One note to point out. The piggybacked reddot on an ACOG is high, but not any higher than the ultra high mounts that seem to be all the rage. It's definitely a compromise but it works.

[Defaultmp3]

One note to point out. The piggybacked reddot on an ACOG is high, but not any higher than the ultra high mounts that seem to be all the rage. It's definitely a compromise but it works.

I'm not sure that's true. Most folks seem to put the RMR at about 4.25" HOB when piggybacking off of an ACOG, while the a Unity 2.26" is roughly 3.47" HOB; the tallest NVG-specific mounts I know of only push the height to 2.33", so still ~0.75" lower than the RMR on top of the ACOG. One can certainly do work with the RMR on top of the ACOG, but I don't think it'd be fair to say that it's not any higher than the NVG-centric RDS mounts.

[RUTGERS95]

I'd also say the LE points are kinda off point. I don't know a single dept in my state (new jermany) that authorizes lpvos for use and I'm fairly confident in saying that maybe 1%, and I'm being generous, could make a shot remotely close to what was stated earlier. lol

Anything past 60yds I believe would require SWAT or tactical response teams as the liability becomes an issue. Again, each state varies of course.

[Mjolnir]

One note to point out. The piggybacked reddot on an ACOG is high, but not any higher than the ultra high mounts that seem to be all the rage. It's definitely a compromise but it works.

If you’re right handed

Leave the rifle in your shoulder pocket.

Keep your cheek weld.

ROLL THE RIFLE UNTIL THE OPTIC & DOT APPEARS IN THE LEFT EYE.

Do the reverse if you’re left-handed.

There is zero need to alter your cheek rest - just roll the rifle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mysteryman]

1) 1-8x is where I think you can make the argument that it has merit. Too many people apply the context of their 1-4 or 1-6x 2nd FP and assume it translates to 1-8x. Field situations may dictate that FOV not be on full-power but expedient holds are required. The circumstance may be competitive environment where one chooses an optimum setting but still has multiple target distances under time. In the case of practical experience, it's a lower power setting to survey the scene but one must still rely on hold values for leading a potential running target/squirter. Not something everybody needs but there it is.

2) Average sniper/police shooting distance and general rule for defensive shooting is what it is. If people don't want to play in the deep-end of the pool they don't have to, but don't assume that others can't/don't/shouldn't.
The wind/elevation hold reticles in the ATACR, Razor 1-10 and Dual CC are nice for the practical applications of a good optic/ammo/rifle/shooter. That being said, the FULL potential is much, much more than most give credit for. Any clown can sling bullets into a berm and adjust from where the dust kicks up and hit given enough chances. When pushing limits of a 5.56 carbine at distance, the wind is less forgiving as is the elevation and dialing gives a person one less variable to fight if one wishes to make a first or even a 2nd or 3rd round hit with out guessing and being repeatable and responding to conditions. Second is the process doping of the rifle and truing the data; being able to see and tweak the numbers for one's self saves a lot of time and headache. They can't cram a Tremor 3 into an LPVO (at least I hope they don't try that...the H27 CQBSS is excessive enough), there is a place for dialing if one wishes to eek every bit of performance.

3) I found I did a lot of work at 2x-4x in my optics over the years. 4x is about the limit to my off-hand stability/optics. 2x is about my optimum for 25-70y which gave me good situational awareness on scene for raids on approach but showed me things not visible to my 1x eyeball. Depending on certain drills, standards, I have a variety of sweet spots for magnification depending on the range/target size/time standard. This versatility is great for those that understand how to utilize it; a curse to those those that don't as they often find themselves with too much or not enough power.

4) See all the above. The thing about real life is people who don't want to be caught or seen generally put forth effort to stay free/hidden. You don't know what you're going to need until you don't have it. As DefaultMp3 already mentioned regarding Pressburg, it's not going to be plucking the Ace at 600y, the reality is being able to see and acquire a shooting solution on the guy peeking around the corner and being able to see and put it through the orbital at 67y and break-off a piece. Maybe you can't do that with your Aimpoint/mag or ACOG...maybe you just as well can, but what about some of the other things I mention. I know that there are people still on this Earth (or at least without extra holes) and bad guys in jail because I could see the shadow behind a barely cracked door less than 30y away through my Short Dot when my partner with an EOTech could not. Same goes for seeing the padlocked gate (that was not locked the night before) and saved my team a path that would compromise a quick, silent approach. In my career, I have been able to SEE things I would've had to go places I wouldn't be safe to see.

All that and being 100% effective 0-500y (with very positive capability to 1/2 mile) is just plain cool.
It's not a cheap ride, but it's a damn good one...if you're willing to put in the work, buy right and commit.

Cheers.

The factor that's missing here is mission set. For the MIL/LE guy some of the advantages are absolutely life saving and border on being essential. For the HD citizen, not so much.

If you’re right handed

Leave the rifle in your shoulder pocket.

Keep your cheek weld.

ROLL THE RIFLE UNTIL THE OPTIC & DOT APPEARS IN THE LEFT EYE.

Do the reverse if you’re left-handed.

There is zero need to alter your cheek rest - just roll the rifle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed!