I am really struggling with LPVOs

[1168]

Context is key.

A 11b2p (or c!) in the 82nd is going to have a different concept of maximum justifiable distance, PID, target discrimination, max distance for a given hit probability with a given degree of target exposure, or whatever, in comparison to a cop. Actually, the 11b may not have a concept of any of that at all….. he’s just trying to figure out which invasive cacti he should plant on Luzon DZ and has no room in his multiple-concussed brain for trivial shit like this. And a competitor will have a different view, hopefully, in comparison to an HD dude. Neither of those dudes really “lives in a 200m world”. Mostly cops and preppers do.

[Mysteryman]

Decent point, especially considering any self defense situation. Longest point in my house is 25yds, the property.... 50yds, and it's why I choose a red dot for that arena.

I've even made good hits out to 600yds with a red dot, I know making hits is not an issue with a red dot.

It's making the moral decision to pull the trigger and good info input is part of that.

I can only think of a few occasions I'd grab an LPVO, but I can also understand why someone would choose it on a general purpose type rifle.

Totally agree.

Context is key.

A 11b2p (or c!) in the 82nd is going to have a different concept of maximum justifiable distance, PID, target discrimination, max distance for a given hit probability with a given degree of target exposure, or whatever, in comparison to a cop. Actually, the 11b may not have a concept of any of that at all….. he’s just trying to figure out which invasive cacti he should plant on Luzon DZ and has no room in his multiple-concussed brain for trivial shit like this. And a competitor will have a different view, hopefully, in comparison to an HD dude. Neither of those dudes really “lives in a 200m world”. Mostly cops and preppers do.

You're right context. Then again, serving members don't get a lot of freedom to choose what they want so the discussion is moot.

[1168]

. Then again, serving members don't get a lot of freedom to choose what they want so the discussion is moot.

Bullshit.

[Mysteryman]

Bullshit.

Are you saying your average infantry soldier (0311 I do believe, haven't served don't know for sure) has the option to choose an LPVO, RDS, or combination thereof?? I'm not concerned about the high speed units, we all know they do as they please.

[1168]

Are you saying your average infantry soldier (0311 I do believe, haven't served don't know for sure) has the option to choose an LPVO, RDS, or combination thereof?? I'm not concerned about the high speed units, we all know they do as they please.

I’m saying the discussion isn’t moot. But, since you ask, its not unusual for an armsroom to have more than one type of optic, and NCOs may get to choose, and Privates usually get it chosen for them. For example, giving the best qual-scoring dude that isn’t cherry a magnified optic is a pretty common tactic.

0311 is specifically a Marine Rifleman.

High speed units aren’t as willy-nilly as people think.

[Mysteryman]

I’m saying the discussion isn’t moot. But, since you ask, its not unusual for an armsroom to have more than one type of optic, and NCOs may get to choose, and Privates usually get it chosen for them. For example, giving the best qual-scoring dude that isn’t cherry a magnified optic is a pretty common tactic.

0311 is specifically a Marine Rifleman.

High speed units aren’t as willy-nilly as people think.

Like I said, they don't get a lot of freedom to choose their optics. I understand giving the best guy a magnified optic. What if every soldier in the unit would benefit from a magnified optic? Are there enough for all and is everyone trained/capable with them? Hence "this is what you get, move along."

[1168]

Like I said, they don't get a lot of freedom to choose their optics. I understand giving the best guy a magnified optic. What if every soldier in the unit would benefit from a magnified optic? Are there enough for all and is everyone trained/capable with them? Hence "this is what you get, move along."

If you don’t get my point that context matters in discussion of PID and utilizing glass, then I don’t think further derailment of the thread will help.

[pinzgauer]

Like I said, they don't get a lot of freedom to choose their optics. I understand giving the best guy a magnified optic. What if every soldier in the unit would benefit from a magnified optic? Are there enough for all and is everyone trained/capable with them? Hence "this is what you get, move along."

A while ago I was chatting with my IN Captain son on this. It's just a couple of data points from two different active duty infantry units. One airborne (not the 82nd) and one mainstream mech.

Standard optic lately is the acog and that's what they train and plan to fight with at the platoon and company level in general. Everyone also has red dots (TA-68s?) and they occasionally train with those. But the focus has been longer range with acogs the last couple of years.

This is not a decision by the joe's, it's a joint NCO and officer decision based on their expected AO, role, and tactics. Some of this is also apparently addressing latent muscle memory from the last engagements which were often close in urban.

There may be units that don't have acogs for all joes (specifically, 11b's), but that's not been my son's experience.

[Mysteryman]

If you don’t get my point that context matters in discussion of PID and utilizing glass, then I don’t think further derailment of the thread will help.

I got your point. PID for home defense is much easier to determine than identifying a possible enemy combatant at several hundred metres. Context. No one stateside is a threat to you at several hundred metres. People approaching you or in your home with a weapon are fair game. Not always the case in a war zone where PID is critical.

A while ago I was chatting with my IN Captain son on this. It's just a couple of data points from two different active duty infantry units. One airborne (not the 82nd) and one mainstream mech.

Standard optic lately is the acog and that's what they train and plan to fight with at the platoon and company level in general. Everyone also has red dots (TA-68s?) and they occasionally train with those. But the focus has been longer range with acogs the last couple of years.

This is not a decision by the joe's, it's a joint NCO and officer decision based on their expected AO, role, and tactics. Some of this is also apparently addressing latent muscle memory from the last engagements which were often close in urban.

There may be units that don't have acogs for all joes (specifically, 11b's), but that's not been my son's experience.

I appreciate the insight. Let me add something else. When big gov is paying for gear and decides when and where you fight, you can tailor your gear (to some degree) to that fight. For the armed citizen, you base your decision on what factors are most likely to be present and make do. You don't decide when or where you fight.

[Wake27]

I got your point. PID for home defense is much easier to determine than identifying a possible enemy combatant at several hundred metres. Context. No one stateside is a threat to you at several hundred metres. People approaching you or in your home with a weapon are fair game. Not always the case in a war zone where PID is critical.



I appreciate the insight. Let me add something else. When big gov is paying for gear and decides when and where you fight, you can tailor your gear (to some degree) to that fight. For the armed citizen, you base your decision on what factors are most likely to be present and make do. You don't decide when or where you fight.

Absolutes are a dangerous game.


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