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Thread: I never want to hear anyone say the forward assist is useless ever again!

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkland View Post
    I think there's something that a lot of people in this thread are missing. By the way Rittenhouse described his malfunction, it sounded to me like a round had been stripped from the magazine but not fully chambered, bolt went forward but stopped short of being in battery, the extractor would not have been in control of the cartridge. A tap rack would most likely have caused a double feed, which would have led to a very bad outcome for Kyle. Let's look at the forward assist for what it really is, a way to move the bolt forward, that's all. It's no different than pushing forward on a fixed bolt handle. Now I do agree that a tap rack is the right thing to do in most situations, but in this situation there's no denying that hitting the forward assist kept him in the fight and saved him from being killed, maimed, beat up by the mob, or whatever. In a high stress situation, racking the charging handle is not foolproof either, you can short shuck it, you can fail to grab it properly, your fingers can slip off. Hitting the forward assist on the other hand is foolproff, it's a big huge button that you can't miss, and it works when your rifle is in a certain condition, like the one Rittenhouse described. Additionally, if you watch the video, he had very little time to fix the malfunction with Grosskreutz bearing down on him with Glock in hand. Hitting the forward assist is faster than a tap rack, and like I said before it's a foolproof action. You can't really **** up hitting the forward assist. Kyle had a malfunction, assessed the condition of his firearm, fixed the problem, and dealt with the attacker, all within the span of a few milliseconds. The FA is not useless, we have proof on video.
    I've been assuming he hit the rifle butt on the ground when he fell, causing it come out of battery. Is that not what happened? I've never had an occasion where the bolt successfully stripped the round out of the mag but didn't grip the rim.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Armalite did studies to determine the viability and begged the army not to include it. When basically ordered to come up with one, Stoner said he designed it with the sole intent to make it as easy as possible to delete in later versions. He predicted the army would delete it within one contract.
    He got a lot wrong. Decades of bug fixing made the AR great, and the FA is still there.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin248 View Post
    He got a lot wrong. Decades of bug fixing made the AR great, and the FA is still there.
    Like what? The initial problems with the M16 were all the Army's doing, and Armalite tried to warn them.

  4. #84
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    Sadly many here are either drinking the koolaid or never ran a gun long enough to know how important the FA really is. I have had numerous instances in the field and in training in the military where the FA was used. Even after Rittenhouse explains its use and successfully survives an attack by a horde of drug fueled zombies. Some (whom have likely never used a Stoner rifle in such a scenario) still harp against its merits. Dirty guns, weak springs, all attribute to poor chambering. The bolt release under the tension of a healthy spring is pretty aggressive, most of the time the FA does not require much effort from my experience. It's also possible for a bolt to back out via the CH getting caught on something. I had used the need for the FA in training numerous times prior to experiencing it in the field. We had super dirty and dry guns: I don't recall whether the lube was synthetic or conventional CLP but after 3000 rounds the spring gets weak and needs replacing. You can easily go through 3k rounds from 0600-2100 in small arms training per carbine. I have seen all manner of malfunction and stoppages in virtually every military weapon of my era. Many are catastrophic. I nearly lost a finger when my 870 barrel blew. I was hit so hard in the thigh by a loaded M9 mag when a double charge blew it out and split the barrel rendering it useless. Any mechanical device will eventually fail. Rittenhouse cheap AR worked extremely well, and we are not all fortunate enough to have a super slick coated precision made AR for recreation or duty: so the FA still serves a purpose at the last second to give you that split second chance in the mist of chaos.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core781 View Post
    Sadly many here are either drinking the koolaid or never ran a gun long enough to know how important the FA really is. I have had numerous instances in the field and in training in the military where the FA was used. Even after Rittenhouse explains its use and successfully survives an attack by a horde of drug fueled zombies. Some (whom have likely never used a Stoner rifle in such a scenario) still harp against its merits. Dirty guns, weak springs, all attribute to poor chambering. The bolt release under the tension of a healthy spring is pretty aggressive, most of the time the FA does not require much effort from my experience. It's also possible for a bolt to back out via the CH getting caught on something. I had used the need for the FA in training numerous times prior to experiencing it in the field. We had super dirty and dry guns: I don't recall whether the lube was synthetic or conventional CLP but after 3000 rounds the spring gets weak and needs replacing. You can easily go through 3k rounds from 0600-2100 in small arms training per carbine. I have seen all manner of malfunction and stoppages in virtually every military weapon of my era. Many are catastrophic. I nearly lost a finger when my 870 barrel blew. I was hit so hard in the thigh by a loaded M9 mag when a double charge blew it out and split the barrel rendering it useless. Any mechanical device will eventually fail. Rittenhouse cheap AR worked extremely well, and we are not all fortunate enough to have a super slick coated precision made AR for recreation or duty: so the FA still serves a purpose at the last second to give you that split second chance in the mist of chaos.
    That's what I meant.

    Good write-up.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    I've never had an occasion where the bolt successfully stripped the round out of the mag but didn't grip the rim.
    I have definitely had it happen with a dirty (well, sandy) weapon. Round didn't fully chamber, and wouldn't eject without using the FA to force the extractor over the rim. Have also had the bolt fail to seat fully and a tap on the FA ran it home.

    Andy

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    I've never had an occasion where the bolt successfully stripped the round out of the mag but didn't grip the rim.
    It is typical for the extractor to not snap over the rim on a failure to feed. Its not a Mauser or a Glock.
    RLTW
    Y-you realize that nighttime makes up half of all time? -Rick Sanchez

    Disclosure: I am affiliated PRN with a tactical training center, but I speak only for myself. I have no idea what we sell, other than CLP.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    I've been assuming he hit the rifle butt on the ground when he fell, causing it come out of battery. Is that not what happened? I've never had an occasion where the bolt successfully stripped the round out of the mag but didn't grip the rim.
    I've had it happen once or twice. Dirty gun? worn out action spring? crappy AR? Some unknown reason? I can just say I've seen it happen before, and I've also tap racked myself into a double feed from that condition. Where there's one round in the chamber and another round trying to wedge itself into the chamber.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkland View Post
    I've had it happen once or twice. Dirty gun? worn out action spring? crappy AR? Some unknown reason? I can just say I've seen it happen before, and I've also tap racked myself into a double feed from that condition. Where there's one round in the chamber and another round trying to wedge itself into the chamber.
    Ive done the same thing on a suppressed SBR.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie View Post
    Like what? The initial problems with the M16 were all the Army's doing, and Armalite tried to warn them.
    The big problems in Vietnam were indeed done by the military. However a couple things that he designed wrong were the 1in14 twist rate and no protections around the magazine release. I also think revised versions of the rifle had some areas beefed up on the lower receiver.
    C co 1/30th Infantry Regiment
    3rd Brigade 3rd Infantry Division
    2002-2006
    OIF 1 and 3

    IraqGunz:
    No dude is going to get shot in the chest at 300 yards and look down and say "What is that, a 3 MOA group?"

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