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Thread: I never want to hear anyone say the forward assist is useless ever again!

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    The number of folks on my Full OF Shit List grows everyday
    No argument from me.

    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    Every single time. Getting ready to hit a building, I do it every single time.

    Coming out of a cruiser and racking the CH while in odd positions, or while racking it in the cruiser while you are coming in hot because you hear guys calling shots are still being fired.... I hit the FA each time while out of the car as soon as I start running towards the threat. I've also ran through heavily congested traffic while racking a round and hitting the FA. The look on faces is priceless. I can never tell if its fear, or that people are stunned cops are earning their paychecks, or if its little kids just thinking its awesome. I prefer the kids attitude, because it is awesome, and they actually pay us to do it. Less paper on a shots fired or armed robbery call than there is on a DUI/DWI anyway.

    We teach press checking pistols all the time, but far too many guys look at you as if you have a second head when you teach doing in on your PRIMARY WEAPON.
    This is the post of the week. Thanks for sharing!


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcC View Post
    There seems to be those in the military who don't use or like the FA, see above, and those who do. I sometimes shoot with a guy (recently retired) who was in the 3rd SF in Afghanistan. I don't mention him to impress you, but just as an example of a pretty high end shooter who whenever I've seen him do an administrative load, he always hits the FA and then closes his dust cover. Also, I've seen good cop shooters and other very good shooters hit the back of their Glock to make sure it's locked, the pistol version of hitting the FA. I for one had a malfunction in which I pulled the trigger and got a click (there was a Tula .223 in the chamber), I didn't bother with the FA, didn't really look to see the condition of the bolt, I just went right for a rack that round out and press on. I'm surely no expert, but there seems to be a wide variety of views on the FA. Maybe the OP was just overstating his position a bit, but I think we can agree that in Kyle's case his method worked at least that time.
    I hear you loud and clear. As mentioned by another member the use of the FA is standard practice for many units within the military. It doesn't make it right, it makes it common. Much like unloading/showing clear then dry firing their AR prior to entering the chow hall is standard practice. Completely stupid and has resulted in a ton of ND's.

    Your example is excellent. TAP TUG RACK solves the problem. It also works with every semi auto on the market. I don't disagree that using the FA played a big role in Kyle's case. I just don't see it as empirical evidence that it is something to concern oneself with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I don't discount your experiences, and speaking as someone who has real world malfunctions, I can say I am personally a fan of a proper clearance drill over hitting the FA and hoping you get lucky. A blind hit on the FA is NOT a sign of good judgement or proper training. When I look at it as an instructor, I look at it as blind fumbling, which is the same thing I've seen in force of force training with Simmunitions (marking cartridges) when guys are getting to a new level of stress inoculation or are hitting condition black.
    This is the point I'm trying to make. The FA solves almost nothing, and solves nothing that couldn't be solved with the charge handle. Again, not something worth spending any amount of time worrying about.

  4. #44
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    I never want to hear anyone say the forward assist is useless ever again!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteryman View Post
    I hear you loud and clear. As mentioned by another member the use of the FA is standard practice for many units within the military. It doesn't make it right, it makes it common. Much like unloading/showing clear then dry firing their AR prior to entering the chow hall is standard practice. Completely stupid and has resulted in a ton of ND's.

    Your example is excellent. TAP TUG RACK solves the problem. It also works with every semi auto on the market. I don't disagree that using the FA played a big role in Kyle's case. I just don't see it as empirical evidence that it is something to concern oneself with.



    This is the point I'm trying to make. The FA solves almost nothing, and solves nothing that couldn't be solved with the charge handle. Again, not something worth spending any amount of time worrying about.
    You’re right in that just because it’s common, doesn’t make it right. However comparing SFAUC-C SOP to dfac clearing procedures is somewhat asinine. GBs are almost religious about cutting unnecessary stuff.


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  5. #45
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    I don’t see it mentioned, but if you are crossing some rough terrain and may have mortared your rifle on something, that may be a good time to use FA to ensure you are in full battery. I am in the “it has its place, but know its place” camp.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    What I did see of his fight was VERY impressive. As someone who has spent tons of time carbine training in my prior years, I was massively impressed by his skillful fighting. Not sure if he's just a natural, or if like many young people these days, he watched a million youtube videos. But the kid fought better than most people I know could have.
    Sign of the times. First, I do agree KR handled himself and the situation extremely well. Unbelievably well. Many if not most would have assumed the fetal position. When I introed my 6-7 year old grandson a few years back to the "trainer" (M&P 15-22), I was impressed. Gun has a small Venom red dot. From all hid videoing, he took to the red dot like a duck to water. Though it'd be kinda a cool if controls could be standardized, he gave it a quick lookover during his "simulation" / safety time the night before heading out and demonstrated an excellent skill level regarding the controls, etc. The following morning he did as well as a very good experienced shooter, Impressed. Last year we upgraded him to ARs and 1911s. This year we began his assorted concepts and techniques training. He loves it. He's trained a few hours with an active deputy buddy of mine and a recently retired deputy. He's now 12. Anyhow, I was blown away by the comfort level he demonstrated from the time spent with his "simulator" video games. He's also in advanced classes and school football so he's doing well. It's definitely a new age. KR's interview with Tucker was impressive.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickman View Post
    I don't discount your experiences, and speaking as someone who has real world malfunctions, I can say I am personally a fan of a proper clearance drill over hitting the FA and hoping you get lucky. A blind hit on the FA is NOT a sign of good judgement or proper training. When I look at it as an instructor, I look at it as blind fumbling, which is the same thing I've seen in force of force training with Simmunitions (marking cartridges) when guys are getting to a new level of stress inoculation or are hitting condition black.
    For myself, as someone who has way more trigger time and training on pistols than ARs, I have little experience using the FA. One the rare occasions I have experienced a click vs a bang with my AR, my auto response has been tap/rack/bang and drive on as I woulds a pistol.

    If I have time before hand, drop bolt, press check, make safe via safety, and AR is hot is if I want the AR to be in that high ready state.

    I prefer skills to be as interchangeable as possible, and the above seems to apply well to ARs and pistols, where as the use of the FA adds something that does not exist with the pistol.

    Make sense or should I be re thinking that approach?
    - Will

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    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

  8. #48
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    The number of folks on my Full OF Shit List grows everyday
    Oh man isn’t that the truth.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by pag23 View Post
    I think that Kyle is trained as his actions and comments kind of reflect it...he did a very good job under extreme stress.

    Having the presence of mind to use the FA and be able to defend himself was crucial....
    You are 100% right. Lots of armchair quarterbacking idiots on this thread that probably have never been in a fight.
    Hunter of Gunmen 8541

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjacobs View Post
    5 pages minimum of mental masturbation....
    You called it.
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