I never want to hear anyone say the forward assist is useless ever again!

[ThirdWatcher]

Everything I have seen on The Tucker snippets has only increased his standing in my mind.

+1. Same here.

[ABNAK]

I think that Kyle is trained as his actions and comments kind of reflect it...he did a very good job under extreme stress.

Having the presence of mind to use the FA and be able to defend himself was crucial....

^^^ All of this!

[TomMcC]

"So a one off example of the FA being used is enough to convince you that it's necessary? The exception does not make the rule. I'm glad Kyle smoked those shitbags but, I'm not about to copy what was used or occurred during the event based solely on the event. I guess by your logic we should all wear purple laytex gloves as they provided superb control of the rifle.."

This is what I mean by stepping back and getting some perspective. I didn't say or imply that using the FA was necessary, even in Kyles situation. What I did say was at that moment Kyle "thought" it necessary and thus did use the FA and it worked out for him. Most trainers I've seen use the term "this is A way, but not THE way" to do shooting. You might consider that your seeming intense dislike for the use of FA is A way to look at it, but not the only valid way.

[zack991]

I don't care what some proclaimed tier 1 guy used to do. Not running the rifle hot is a very dumb idea, closely followed by the ignorant practice of "quiet loading" with the useless forward assist.

Championing the forced inserting of a round into the chamber under the guise of a "what if" one in a billion scenario is plain stupid. Kyle had a low end rifle and likely zero training coupled with minimal trigger time on the gun. He got lucky.

Agreed, it is just as stupid as running with a empty chamber and racking it as needed. I never used the FA on active duty in my nearly 10 years. If it was time crunch we would tap the magazine and rack it, either does the same thing other then just forcing a round into a chamber possibly making it worst. He got lucky. I don't care if some SF guy says that how he did it, 99% of us will never have a team of bad asses to back us up as insurance if the gun goes click. Carry it loaded and on safe and release the hate as needed.

[Mysteryman]

"So a one off example of the FA being used is enough to convince you that it's necessary? The exception does not make the rule. I'm glad Kyle smoked those shitbags but, I'm not about to copy what was used or occurred during the event based solely on the event. I guess by your logic we should all wear purple laytex gloves as they provided superb control of the rifle.."

This is what I mean by stepping back and getting some perspective. I didn't say or imply that using the FA was necessary, even in Kyles situation. What I did say was at that moment Kyle "thought" it necessary and thus did use the FA and it worked out for him. Most trainers I've seen use the term "this is A way, but not THE way" to do shooting. You might consider that your seeming intense dislike for the use of FA is A way to look at it, but not the only valid way.

I understand that the FA is "a way". What I question is how often or useful it really is to validate spending time learning it. Not all guns have an FA so incorporating it into your manual of arms makes it a specialized action for AR's only. A specialized action that is statistically never used and is not quantifiably more effective than a TAP TUG RACK drill.

[TomMcC]

I understand that the FA is "a way". What I question is how often or useful it really is to validate spending time learning it. Not all guns have an FA so incorporating it into your manual of arms makes it a specialized action for AR's only. A specialized action that is statistically never used and is not quantifiably more effective than a TAP TUG RACK drill.

There seems to be those in the military who don't use or like the FA, see above, and those who do. I sometimes shoot with a guy (recently retired) who was in the 3rd SF in Afghanistan. I don't mention him to impress you, but just as an example of a pretty high end shooter who whenever I've seen him do an administrative load, he always hits the FA and then closes his dust cover. Also, I've seen good cop shooters and other very good shooters hit the back of their Glock to make sure it's locked, the pistol version of hitting the FA. I for one had a malfunction in which I pulled the trigger and got a click (there was a Tula .223 in the chamber), I didn't bother with the FA, didn't really look to see the condition of the bolt, I just went right for a rack that round out and press on. I'm surely no expert, but there seems to be a wide variety of views on the FA. Maybe the OP was just overstating his position a bit, but I think we can agree that in Kyle's case his method worked at least that time.

[MistWolf]

The number of folks on my Full OF Shit List grows everyday

[Wake27]

There seems to be those in the military who don't use or like the FA, see above, and those who do. I sometimes shoot with a guy (recently retired) who was in the 3rd SF in Afghanistan. I don't mention him to impress you, but just as an example of a pretty high end shooter who whenever I've seen him do an administrative load, he always hits the FA and then closes his dust cover. Also, I've seen good cop shooters and other very good shooters hit the back of their Glock to make sure it's locked, the pistol version of hitting the FA. I for one had a malfunction in which I pulled the trigger and got a click (there was a Tula .223 in the chamber), I didn't bother with the FA, didn't really look to see the condition of the bolt, I just went right for a rack that round out and press on. I'm surely no expert, but there seems to be a wide variety of views on the FA. Maybe the OP was just overstating his position a bit, but I think we can agree that in Kyle's case his method worked at least that time.

I believe SFAUC-C POI varies group to group but I do know that hitting the FA is part of the proper admin loading procedure for at least two groups.


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[Stickman]

I took a class with a famous tier one guy. He stated that they would press check under NODs on approach and didn’t want to risk the sound of a whole team dropping bolts. They would feel the round on the bolt, ease the charge handle into battery then use the FA. Very niche use but it isn’t expensive.

Every single time. Getting ready to hit a building, I do it every single time.

Coming out of a cruiser and racking the CH while in odd positions, or while racking it in the cruiser while you are coming in hot because you hear guys calling shots are still being fired.... I hit the FA each time while out of the car as soon as I start running towards the threat. I've also ran through heavily congested traffic while racking a round and hitting the FA. The look on faces is priceless. I can never tell if its fear, or that people are stunned cops are earning their paychecks, or if its little kids just thinking its awesome. I prefer the kids attitude, because it is awesome, and they actually pay us to do it. Less paper on a shots fired or armed robbery call than there is on a DUI/DWI anyway.

We teach press checking pistols all the time, but far too many guys look at you as if you have a second head when you teach doing in on your PRIMARY WEAPON.

[Stickman]

Agreed, it is just as stupid as running with a empty chamber and racking it as needed. I never used the FA on active duty in my nearly 10 years. If it was time crunch we would tap the magazine and rack it, either does the same thing other then just forcing a round into a chamber possibly making it worst. He got lucky. I don't care if some SF guy says that how he did it, 99% of us will never have a team of bad asses to back us up as insurance if the gun goes click. Carry it loaded and on safe and release the hate as needed.

I don't discount your experiences, and speaking as someone who has real world malfunctions, I can say I am personally a fan of a proper clearance drill over hitting the FA and hoping you get lucky. A blind hit on the FA is NOT a sign of good judgement or proper training. When I look at it as an instructor, I look at it as blind fumbling, which is the same thing I've seen in force of force training with Simmunitions (marking cartridges) when guys are getting to a new level of stress inoculation or are hitting condition black.