Ghislaine Maxwell Trial

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I am sure the Feds will win (because they almost always win, the Federal system is heavily rigged for convictions). But today their first victim was not particularly credible. Her story has clearly been juiced-up over the past few years. Initially she wasn't saying much, if anything, bad about Maxwell. Now she has added an amazing amount of juicy stuff she couldn't remember just two years ago. Plus, she has already collected millions from the Epstein estate and probably has a lot of interest in keeping the state happy. Plus, my suspicion is that she is like Virginia Giuffre, and actually started as an underage prostitute but graduated into procurer for Epstein (so she could continue living off Epstein). The state won't even call Giuffre because she has told so many lies at this point.

I think this is the classic frame up of a guilty person. The state's witnesses are going to be a bunch of scuzzy procurers and moochers who are trying to (1) protect their civil claims an (2) try to avoid admitting to being sex-traffickers themselves.

[SteyrAUG]

I am sure the Feds will win (because they almost always win, the Federal system is heavily rigged for convictions). But today their first victim was not particularly credible. Her story has clearly been juiced-up over the past few years. Initially she wasn't saying much, if anything, bad about Maxwell. Now she has added an amazing amount of juicy stuff she couldn't remember just two years ago. Plus, she has already collected millions from the Epstein estate and probably has a lot of interest in keeping the state happy. Plus, my suspicion is that she is like Virginia Giuffre, and actually started as an underage prostitute but graduated into procurer for Epstein (so she could continue living off Epstein). The state won't even call Giuffre because she has told so many lies at this point.

I think this is the classic frame up of a guilty person. The state's witnesses are going to be a bunch of scuzzy procurers and moochers who are trying to (1) protect their civil claims an (2) try to avoid admitting to being sex-traffickers themselves.

Sadly that's the nature of getting scumbags who used to roll with scumbags to testify against the scumbags they used to roll with. Nobody innocent or credible would be left breathing if they actually knew anything serious. It's why mafia trials are the way they used to be, any good guys were dead and they are just using mid level murderous, drug dealing / drug using pieces of shit to try and roll up bigger and higher placed murderous, drug dealing / drug using pieces of shit.

It's why Gotti walked so many damn times. Anyone in the same room with him was as dirty or worse.

[Diamondback]

Das Reich's main job in this case is to protect the pedophiles among its own ranks and those of its key financiers. Limit the damage to Epstein and Maxwell rather than risk it spreading to Biden, Gates or anyone else deemed to "actually matter."

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Apparently the prosecution finally put up a worthwhile witness. They had Epstein's butler/dildo washer who said that he rode around with Maxwell looking for girls. They also pretty much accidentally revealed the identity of witness #1 (a very pretty soap opera actress who was known for playing...prostitutes). The witness was pretty good but was obviously wildly biased and had been convicted of stealing money, etc. He also claimed he didn't know anyone was abusing children because he would have "done something about it!" which apparently got laughs from the crowd.

This is an odd opening week but since the feds will probably have a 3 week case in chief to swamp the defense I would guess they are planning on just throwing stuff at the wall and hope that people decide "where there is smoke there is fire."

This case is actually a lot more mundane than people think. It is just a gross horn-dog con man who liked getting freaky with underage models. It looks like his entire life was just him ingratiating himself with powerful people and trying to profit off his connections by some hook and a lot of crook.

[SteyrAUG]

This case is actually a lot more mundane than people think. It is just a gross horn-dog con man who liked getting freaky with underage models. It looks like his entire life was just him ingratiating himself with powerful people and trying to profit off his connections by some hook and a lot of crook.

More than a few were nothing more than broke teenagers from the poor side of Boca who actually thought they were gonna make $100 to rub so lotion on the back of some creepy old dude. Like any other low life pimp, Jeff had underage girls who he turned out cruising for other underage girls that he might be able to turn out.

The fact that he ran a pedo club for other pedos like Woody Allen is anything but mundane. People lost their minds a few years ago believing that Comet Pizza / underground child sex slave nonsense, but Jeffrey Island is as close to the real thing as you can get without going someplace like Thailand. That he served up junior high age girls to the wealthy of Hollywood and DC makes it even worse.

Harvey Weinstein was an absolute POS who preyed on those chasing their Hollywood dream, and for all I know ran in the same circles as Epstein and crew, but Maxwell is 100% in the same damn league with all of them as a predatory pedo who fully exploited children for their own sick BS. This isn't a case of some wealthy dude paying for 17 year old models in Europe where age of consent is quite a bit different, these people are kiddie ****ers and only serial killers and their kind are worse. But not by a whole lot.

I'm sure you didn't mean to suggest otherwise but we should be clear about what is what.

[glocktogo]

More than a few were nothing more than broke teenagers from the poor side of Boca who actually thought they were gonna make $100 to rub so lotion on the back of some creepy old dude. Like any other low life pimp, Jeff had underage girls who he turned out cruising for other underage girls that he might be able to turn out.

The fact that he ran a pedo club for other pedos like Woody Allen is anything but mundane. People lost their minds a few years ago believing that Comet Pizza / underground child sex slave nonsense, but Jeffrey Island is as close to the real thing as you can get without going someplace like Thailand. That he served up junior high age girls to the wealthy of Hollywood and DC makes it even worse.

Harvey Weinstein was an absolute POS who preyed on those chasing their Hollywood dream, and for all I know ran in the same circles as Epstein and crew, but Maxwell is 100% in the same damn league with all of them as a predatory pedo who fully exploited children for their own sick BS. This isn't a case of some wealthy dude paying for 17 year old models in Europe where age of consent is quite a bit different, these people are kiddie ****ers and only serial killers and their kind are worse. But not by a whole lot.

I'm sure you didn't mean to suggest otherwise but we should be clear about what is what.

I’m not disagreeing with you here, because they’re both lower than whale shit IMO. But what is the age of the youngest of his victims? Because when I think “kiddie ****ers”, I think prepubescent victims.

All forms of sex with kids under the age of consent are pedophilia under the law. But technically, there are gradients. Infantophiles, pedophiles, hebephiles, ephebophiles and teleiophiles.

It was my understanding that Epstein and Maxwell were ephebophiles (generally 15-17 year old victims). They’re still scumbags who abused, traded and peddled underage flesh, but there are a lot of people in our society who would not push for max sentencing on an ephebophile the same as they would an infantophile or pedophile.

Personally I think convicted infantophiles and pedophiles deserve a swift bullet to the base of the skull and dumped in the landfill. I’d lean toward the bullet for hebephiles as well, but I get hazy on ephebophiles. In those cases I really want the specifics before passing judgement, especially if the punishment is permanent.

[SteyrAUG]

I’m not disagreeing with you here, because they’re both lower than whale shit IMO. But what is the age of the youngest of his victims? Because when I think “kiddie ****ers”, I think prepubescent victims.

All forms of sex with kids under the age of consent are pedophilia under the law. But technically, there are gradients. Infantophiles, pedophiles, hebephiles, ephebophiles and teleiophiles.

It was my understanding that Epstein and Maxwell were ephebophiles (generally 15-17 year old victims). They’re still scumbags who abused, traded and peddled underage flesh, but there are a lot of people in our society who would not push for max sentencing on an ephebophile the same as they would an infantophile or pedophile.

Personally I think convicted infantophiles and pedophiles deserve a swift bullet to the base of the skull and dumped in the landfill. I’d lean toward the bullet for hebephiles as well, but I get hazy on ephebophiles. In those cases I really want the specifics before passing judgement, especially if the punishment is permanent.

Allegations are as young as 11 but most credible sources put it at 14. For Epstein I think it was about young girls who could easily be manipulated, especially by money and also capable of the sexual act. I don't think he was trolling for 8 year olds like some sickos.

But it wasn't just a case of wow she's 15, if I didn't know better I'd think she was 23. I don't think he was into that. I think he was into very underage girls 14-16 because he could play power trip games more effectively and I think his ego enjoyed the taboo aspects of things.

More importantly, if he wanted, he could have had model quality 18-21 year old girls all day...every day without any undue risk except maybe a paying for a prostitute charge and who cares. But he just wasn't into sexually matured adult females.

He was a kiddie ****er.

[Business_Casual]

I’m not condoning any of the behavior in this whole sordid affair, but one reason there is a problem with Guiffre is the age of consent in England is 16. The caption on the Guiffre photo always says 17 year old. No crime.

[joedirt199]

Younger girls were easier to manipulate and cheaper to buy. From the victim statements on the documentary, these girls were no victims and recruited several friends and family knowing full well what he was up to just for money and promises. Hell the one girl went with them all over for the promise of going through masseuse school. Can't be that hard to get into or prerequisites.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

Younger girls were easier to manipulate and cheaper to buy. From the victim statements on the documentary, these girls were no victims and recruited several friends and family knowing full well what he was up to just for money and promises. Hell the one girl went with them all over for the promise of going through masseuse school. Can't be that hard to get into or prerequisites.

No question the primary public accuser is basically just a younger version of Maxwell (Virginia Giuffre). She has somehow been allowed to portray herself as a victim when it looks like she was probably his chief procurer. I think she started at 17, which was probably legal in Florida at the time if it isn't now. She appears to just have been another young prostitute who hit the golden ticket. Apparently everyone involved in this case is scum.