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Thread: Used is Not New

  1. #21
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    I have gotten a metric crap-ton off EE, and made some pretty good friends in the process. Bonus.

    I will say I don't often do market research, and I've had a couple guys PM to tell me my price was off base compared to the market. I don't mind, it doesn't hurt my feelings.

    The thing that does make me shake my head is the used stuff at new prices. I never really got that.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    Couple of things I've learned since working with and buying guns as a job and not just a hobby: people have a really highly inflated view of what their stuff is worth. NIB, Like New, gently used, whatever, they think they should be getting a very good percentage of what they paid for the firearm in question, regardless of what they paid for it, or what other factors are involved. "I've only shot it XX times" is always funny, especially when you inspect it and find it packed with carbon, major scratches on the finish, and accessories missing.
    The one constant I've seen is this.

    If a person is buying a gun, they know EXACTLY what the lowest FFL price is anywhere and they are hoping to get it on sale for 10% below that price.

    But if the same person is now selling a gun, suddenly they know EXACTLY what MSRP is and they are hoping to sell for maybe 10% above that price because it's still in really good condition.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    I dunno. If somebody buys it NIB and leaves it NIB, to me that is still NIB. Maybe old stock or whatever.

    But once they clean it, finger **** it or shoot it even once, it's used. Might be in really excellent condition, but still not any longer NIB. And don't try and sell me some "it get's test fired at the factory" nonsense.
    A lot of truth in that comment there. Most times, No. They did not test fire shit at any factory. Guys would know this if they actually owned a borescope and checked the 'new' stuff they just bought once in a while.

    I have a small collection of Colts. Some were bought to shoot and some were bought to collect. Darn near every one had a borescope run down the pipe as soon as I got them home and... If anyone was to ever try and tell me that Colt 'test fires' every rifle / carbine before it gets sent out the door I would really quickly tell them they are full of crap. You can SEE really darn clearly with the right tools. Even 'if' a reseller was to clean out any carbon or copper that gas pot is going to let you know right quick and there is no 'cleaning' that to make it look like brand spanking new again...

    I do have a few nicer rifles / carbines / barrels that WERE actually test fired before getting sent my way. Generally those came with their test target included and a card with notes and names on it. (who checked off on what and what was fired at what distance blah, blah, blah)

    Have bough some pistols that included a fired casing / casings in an envelope from the factory tucked somewhere inside the factory case...

    For the most part, nope. If I do not see stuff from the factory or manufacturer indicating it has been test fired - I am not buying that sort of crap.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-17 View Post
    Couple of things I've learned since working with and buying guns as a job and not just a hobby: people have a really highly inflated view of what their stuff is worth. NIB, Like New, gently used, whatever, they think they should be getting a very good percentage of what they paid for the firearm in question, regardless of what they paid for it, or what other factors are involved. "I've only shot it XX times" is always funny, especially when you inspect it and find it packed with carbon, major scratches on the finish, and accessories missing.

    Little less on topic for this thread, but it's also funny how few people seem to get the concept of wholesale prices vs retail. Not an issue in private sales, but when who you're selling it to will be turning around to resell, they're not going to be able to offer you 100% of what they'll ultimately sell it for. The higher the amount they give you, the higher they'll ask for it later. That's a really novel concept to some folks.

    All that said, a gun (or whatever)'s value is exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, no more, no less. Some things we'll have at ridiculously outrageous prices (M1 Garands come to mind) and they blow out of here. Others are pretty fairly priced, and they'll sit around for months and we'll get comments every damn day about how they "used to buy these for $100 back in the day!" Stupidly high prices are annoying, but the only thing you can do is make an offer, and see if the seller accepts. If not, just let other fools be quickly parted with thier money.
    Kind of like I've heard from many cops about guys they've pulled over weaving all over the place, it's always "two beers" they've had!

    I think for guns it's "Less than 100 rounds".
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    Oh, and screw China!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG23 View Post

    I do have a few nicer rifles / carbines / barrels that WERE actually test fired before getting sent my way. Generally those came with their test target included and a card with notes and names on it. (who checked off on what and what was fired at what distance blah, blah, blah)

    Have bough some pistols that included a fired casing / casings in an envelope from the factory tucked somewhere inside the factory case...
    Yep, those are the only ones. All of my old HK rifles came with test targets. I don't think I've ever seen one with a Colt AR rifle.

    Glock started that ballistic fingerprint crap so for years they came with a couple spent casings.

    But the main point is you can't buy a NEW gun, shoot two boxes of ammo through it and then try and resell it as a NEW gun.

    I've had a couple rifles I bought that I just fell out of love with. But when I sold them they were sold as "excellent condition" and I noted "100 rounds fired by me with no failures" and then I cleaned it. People who sell dirty used guns are just damn lazy.

    And if I'm not the original owner, I won't even try and guess round counts. But again this is pretty easy stuff and if grown ups would just act like grown ups.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Kind of like I've heard from many cops about guys they've pulled over weaving all over the place, it's always "two beers" they've had!

    I think for guns it's "Less than 100 rounds".
    For me sometimes it is. I know within 100 rounds if a rifle or handgun just isn't floating my boat. But yeah, 90% of the time it's internet BS just like all guns will only take "two weeks" to repair or get restocked. I think I'm still waiting on a few firearms to become available from 10+ years ago that were promised to me in "two weeks."
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  7. #27
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    The great thing about places like the EE is you're always free to make an offer...
    Just don't get butthurt if someone shoots it down if it's ridiculously low.

    Reselling on forums and swap sites and such is complicated... you see, you start out with wonderful naive ideas of finding great deals and helping other people out.
    Then....you get hit in the face with reality, and the reality is, people suck. These motherf***ers that hang out on the resale sites.... buncha damn savages who will pop out of the bushes and scalp the shit out of you, just to pick your pockets for 2.75 in savings. Then as Steyr said, suddenly when they're selling stuff, it's worth every damn cent and how dast thou lowball me, insolent varlet!
    Needless to say, those of us who have been dealing with the barrel of entitled monkeys that is the shooting community, have grown weary of such antics, got sick of practically giving shit away just to see the next guy sell their widget for damn near retail, and have re-oriented our sales models accordingly.
    So, alas and forsooth my good friend, the days of people giving a crap about 'helpin a brotha out' are long over. Unless, like, you get in tight with someone who just loves the shit out of you or something and will send you free stuff because reasons...
    Also, yeah, new is still new. I've had people try that nonsense on me before to try and guilt-trip you into selling for a WAY lower price than is sane. The only reason anyone sells obviously new items at lower than retail is simply that they want to get rid of it.
    As always, a dead ringer for a 'kick you in the nuts' lowballer is the guy complaining the loudest about your prices - they know you know what the item is worth, and are mad because they know they can't sucker you into taking 50% for an item you ALREADY had listed for 50% of retail.
    Then you have the plain old cheap bastards, of which you'll never find so many outside the shooting community.
    One time I had a guy offer me $17 for an item I was already selling for $20 shipped. Like, really bro? 3 bucks was worth bothering me with an offer?

    A couple things that also might play into some of the prices these days:
    - There is still a good bit of demand for certain items, even though the market has slumped really hard for most stuff
    - Some people are staring their prices a little high both to have room to haggle with the wheeler-dealers, as well as to ward off idiots and tirekickers
    - Depending on where you are from an item, some people may be more inclined to haggle on the price if you are close to their state (shipping) or will pick it up FTF. Like, if a buyer is only a couple states over and I can save a pile on shipping, I'll usually chop the price down by at least whatever I saved, VS, say, someone clear across the country probably isn't going to see much of a break.
    -$20 is about a cheap as someone can sell a [small] item for, eat the shipping/PP fees, and expect to make any sort of profit. Because it's impossible to ever get anyone to chip in on either, and most folks selling expect to eat both, this can also be a reason some prices seem a little less awesome - if they expect to take a big hit between those two.
    - Not sure about others, but personally, I'm more likely to cut someone a deal here, than anywhere else, just cuz folks here have provided a lot of useful info over the years, and are generally less assholeistic to deal with.
    "Once we get some iron in our souls, we'll get some iron in our hands..."

    "...A rapid, aggressive response will let you get away with some pretty audacious things if you are willing to be mean, fast, and naked."-Failure2Stop

    "The Right can meme; the Left can organize. I guess now we know which one is important." - Random internet comment

  8. #28
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    Things I have learned being a FFL since the late 90s.

    People talk a lot of shit but let somebody have something $1 cheaper and everyone will try and buy it at Buds. Despite the fact that there are a million "worst customer service ever" threads regarding Buds and Botach, 75% of the internet will still buy there instead if it's $1 cheaper.

    The lower the price items you sell, the more you are gonna deal with broke dick jackasses who expect the world because they are spending $450 on a handgun and it's the first NEW firearm they've ever bought in their life. They treat their first Glock purchase as if they won the lottery and are shopping at your Ferarri dealership. They would fall over and die if they really knew you were only making $8 on the sale, they really do believe there is some super, secret FFL only pricing for new Glocks at $210 each.

    I have a Pain In My F'ing Ass surcharge. It fluctuates accordingly. Yes sir, the Glock really is $895.00...yes sir I completely understand you can buy it elsewhere a LOT cheaper.

    The people who rant THE MOST about communism suddenly want me to become a community gun dealer because it supports second amendment freedom fighters and what kind of ahole would think about profiting from that? I mean isn't it my obligation to sell such valiant, internet activists firearms AT COST or even better at BELOW COST because internet activism is almost the same as military service and they give those guys guns for free. They are after all...defending capitalism, even if they don't agree with it right now...on the purchase of a firearm. It's the philosophical idea of capitalism they are defending.

    People who spend $20,000 on a transferable M-16 don't bust your balls about your USGI magazines being $18 when they have seen them on the internet for $16. They also don't call you every three days asking "IS IT IN YET?!?", they know how Form 4s work and you signed the "I Do" thing which lets them call NFA directly and check status, but even most of those guys know to just watch their bank account and see if the check has been cashed yet.

    If I'm going to give a price break to anyone, it's going to be the guy who buys 6-10 firearms a year, not the guy who buys one firearm every 6-10 years.

    If you buy a gun from me below MSRP and then try to sell it to me 3 years later for more than you paid for it, I will block your phone number.

    Some people take this shit way too seriously.
    It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.

    Chuck, we miss ya man.

    كافر

  9. #29
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    I was selling a firearm one time a number of years ago, think it was on TOS (go figure). It wasn't cheap, although I don't recall exactly what it was. Suffice it to say it was priced to move. I got an "offer" from a guy who actually took the time to type out a long-ass list of crap like slings, crappy bayonets for an AK or SKS, obscure pistol magazines for guns nobody shoots anymore, more slings, holsters, basically garbage I had no interest in. It was like he cleaned out his garage or his wife made him clean out his closet or the basement. He had typed a price by each item. No doubt he cut-and-pasted this list numerous times as he attempted in vain to dump his junk on someone in the hopes of getting said gun for a significant price reduction. I didn't reply to his asinine "offer" but almost told him publicly that I had no interest in his mildewed bits and pieces of JUNK.
    11C2P '83-'87
    Airborne Infantry
    Oh, and screw China!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteyrAUG View Post
    Yep, those are the only ones. All of my old HK rifles came with test targets. I don't think I've ever seen one with a Colt AR rifle.

    Glock started that ballistic fingerprint crap so for years they came with a couple spent casings.

    But the main point is you can't buy a NEW gun, shoot two boxes of ammo through it and then try and resell it as a NEW gun.

    I've had a couple rifles I bought that I just fell out of love with. But when I sold them they were sold as "excellent condition" and I noted "100 rounds fired by me with no failures" and then I cleaned it. People who sell dirty used guns are just damn lazy.

    And if I'm not the original owner, I won't even try and guess round counts. But again this is pretty easy stuff and if grown ups would just act like grown ups.
    I bought a Sig Sauer rifle that came with a Bogus Test Target. How do I know it was bogus? The barrel was installed wrong and couldn't possibly zero, even at ten yards.

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