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Thread: USMC's "Lateral Entry" concept

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-grunt View Post
    Then why do they need to have a uniform?
    They've been through boot. But given that it's worked for at least two other branches, a question is why should it not work for the Corps?

    The question isn't what happens now, but what can happen? Is the Corps (or any branch) making best use of assets and manpower? How does the Corps stop attrition at the first-enlistment level to retain? Why are these guys getting out?

    Maybe a middle ground: boot, no MCT, fast-track rank (ie, pay), technical advancement without leadership billets or mandatory pause for recruiting/drill school.

    As a former serviceman (served 95% of time in FMF), whose grandmother and father were in the Corps, and an interested taxpayer, I have a vested interest in wanting the right people in the right jobs. If you've been around the Corps more than 2 minutes you've seen someone get screwed over because of manpower or policy issues.

  2. #32
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    My understanding is that these would be sworn members of the US military, subject to the UCMJ and all other regulations.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckman View Post
    Are the band people and vocalists riflemen?
    I worked with a guy was had been USMC, and he had a horrible time with pistol or rifle quals. I finally told him during a rifle qual, if every Marine was a rifleman, what the hell was he shooting so poorly for. He happily replied, he played basketball the entire time he was in the Marines. I talked to him later, and he was serious that he had played sports for most of his enlistment. Great guy, great in hand to hand fighting, but good lord he sucked with a rifle.
    Stick


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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slater View Post
    My understanding is that these would be sworn members of the US military, subject to the UCMJ and all other regulations.
    If they take the oath of enlistment, and run a modified boot camp, I don't see the issue. Everyone isn't a combat troop, even in the USMC. I would rather have my com systems up and running than have some imbecile who barely passed screwing up my gear. Same thing with IT. At a certain point, it can't always be civilians maintaining equipment, especially when we deploy.

    While the idea is outside the box, I can see strong appeal and benefit to each branch of the service. Its not like Doctors, Dentists, or several other fields go through the same training as grunts, to me, there isn't much of a difference. Everyone will know these guys are hard core battle beasts, and I doubt any of them would pretend they were.
    Stick


    Board policy mandates I state that I shoot for BCM. I have also done work for 200 or so manufacturers within the firearm community. I am prior service, a full time LEO, firearm instructor, armorer, TL, martial arts instructor, and all around good guy.

    I also shoot and write for various publications. Let me know if you know cool secrets or have toys worthy of an article...


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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by just a scout View Post
    The articles I’ve seen say it’s something like they put the band members through.
    Here’s how you wear a uniform,
    These are the ranks, this is who you call “sir”.


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    This wasn't the case when I went in, in 06, I band members had to do boot camp.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of just dropping people in to the Marines, as a POG, I knew that my job was to support the guys on the ground and that boot camp and MCT gave me a glimpse of what the guy on the ground had to deal with, and the standard that had to be maintained.
    Dr. Carter G. Woodson, “History shows that it does not matter who is in power or what revolutionary forces take over the government, those who have not learned to do for themselves and have to depend solely on others never obtain any more rights or privileges in the end than they had in the beginning.”

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank6046 View Post
    This wasn't the case when I went in, in 06, I band members had to do boot camp.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of just dropping people in to the Marines, as a POG, I knew that my job was to support the guys on the ground and that boot camp and MCT gave me a glimpse of what the guy on the ground had to deal with, and the standard that had to be maintained.
    Bands/musicians higher than division do not do boot. The have a nice, M-F indoc.

    I do not necessarily disagree. My question to you is: how do we recruit and more importantly retain these types of people who will get out and walk into $150k jobs?

    I think what all of us dinosaurs need to warm up to, irrespective of the Marines specifically, is that this ain't our pappy's military, and some skills and jobs will require a paradigm shift with regard to recruiting and retention.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckman View Post
    Bands/musicians higher than division do not do boot. The have a nice, M-F indoc.

    I do not necessarily disagree. My question to you is: how do we recruit and more importantly retain these types of people who will get out and walk into $150k jobs?

    I think what all of us dinosaurs need to warm up to, irrespective of the Marines specifically, is that this ain't our pappy's military, and some skills and jobs will require a paradigm shift with regard to recruiting and retention.
    "how do we recruit and more importantly retain these types of people who will get out and walk into $150k jobs?"

    So I think that we need to talk about incentives and utilization of people within the organization. I didn't join the Marines to work in Aircraft Maintenance and Operations, however, now that I am out ( and I only did a little over 4 years) I am making good money in Maintenance and Operations of a different sort. I honestly wanted to stay in, but wasn't offered anything more than were I was, in a soon to be non-deployable squadron. At the same time, every good CPL who picked up SGT in 3 to 3.5 years was pulled into recruiting duty. It would be one thing to have certain recruiters be former Active Duty Marines, while gutting the working knowledge base as well as loosing all incentives to go try and progress somewhere else.
    Dr. Carter G. Woodson, “History shows that it does not matter who is in power or what revolutionary forces take over the government, those who have not learned to do for themselves and have to depend solely on others never obtain any more rights or privileges in the end than they had in the beginning.”

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank6046 View Post
    "how do we recruit and more importantly retain these types of people who will get out and walk into $150k jobs?"

    So I think that we need to talk about incentives and utilization of people within the organization. I didn't join the Marines to work in Aircraft Maintenance and Operations, however, now that I am out ( and I only did a little over 4 years) I am making good money in Maintenance and Operations of a different sort. I honestly wanted to stay in, but wasn't offered anything more than were I was, in a soon to be non-deployable squadron. At the same time, every good CPL who picked up SGT in 3 to 3.5 years was pulled into recruiting duty. It would be one thing to have certain recruiters be former Active Duty Marines, while gutting the working knowledge base as well as loosing all incentives to go try and progress somewhere else.
    That's good perspective, and I agree. A lot of Marines don't want to be recruiters or drill instructors. Don't make them. The ones that do and thrive, let them be, and leave them there.

    My dad retired at almost 21 years. He was on the list for master gunnery sgt, but it would have resulted in an unaccompanied tour, so he he got out. If after 20 years you have so little control over your own career, imagine the powerlessness of a young E4 at the end of their first enlistment. In the Navy we knew that to a certain point we had some power, and the detailers knew it.

    But these cyber Marines, these high-tech guys, they have to find a different way, or these guys will walk.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckman View Post
    But these cyber Marines, these high-tech guys, they have to find a different way, or these guys will walk.
    Again I just go back to incentives, I would say that you would just modify the contracts to specify that these guys go through boot camp, go through MCT, go through the myriad of schools, but after 12 years or so are pushed forward with other agencies, DOD, State, with the knowledge that they will be making a good 6 figures, I think would be the better way to go. Maybe you give them full retirement at 12-14 years, vs 20-24. I would just say that the standard for being a Marine shouldn't be watered down. That the physical fitness and mindset of a person supporting the guy on the ground shouldn't change, and if it does change that will be more detrimental overall to the Marine Corps, than the benefit of having said personnel.
    Dr. Carter G. Woodson, “History shows that it does not matter who is in power or what revolutionary forces take over the government, those who have not learned to do for themselves and have to depend solely on others never obtain any more rights or privileges in the end than they had in the beginning.”

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank6046 View Post
    Again I just go back to incentives, I would say that you would just modify the contracts to specify that these guys go through boot camp, go through MCT, go through the myriad of schools, but after 12 years or so are pushed forward with other agencies, DOD, State, with the knowledge that they will be making a good 6 figures, I think would be the better way to go. Maybe you give them full retirement at 12-14 years, vs 20-24. I would just say that the standard for being a Marine shouldn't be watered down. That the physical fitness and mindset of a person supporting the guy on the ground shouldn't change, and if it does change that will be more detrimental overall to the Marine Corps, than the benefit of having said personnel.
    I would submit that standards are different, not watered down; but I acknowledge it is a semantics game. The standards are different now: yeah, the bi-annual PFT is the same, but FSSG (or whatever they are called now) do not have the same standards as infantry/arty, nor should they. Throw in what naval personnel have to do, too (talk about different standards).

    Interesting thought about retirement. That's thinking outside the box.

    At the end of the day I enjoy these discussions. Helps this old FAG (former action guy) stretch his mental muscle.
    Last edited by chuckman; 12-02-21 at 11:32.

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