USMC's "Lateral Entry" concept

[Diamondback]

If memory serves, in WWII the Army had "Technician" ranks that brought increased pay and bennies without the leadership authority. More than once IIRC there was a Tech subordinate to a Sarge who was a stripe or two below him...

Tec 5 was equivalent to a Corporal but without NCO authority, T/3 was equivalent to a Staff Sgt and the next rank up from T/3 was merging into the NCO's at Tech Sarge.

Or we could bring back the 1950s Specialist system where it fully paralleled from E4 to E9, again without NCO authority... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_(rank) then use Warrants for above Spec-9.

[Slater]

Doesn't look all that bad (although this is a World War II Army rank):

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I'm curious, how many super-knowledgeable and experienced techies are clamoring to join the Marine Corps and are only being stopped by the idea of Boot Camp and a being lower enlisted?

[Vandal]

I'm curious, how many super-knowledgeable and experienced techies are clamoring to join the Marine Corps and are only being stopped by the idea of Boot Camp and a being lower enlisted?

I suspect very few are looking to take their cyber/tech certs or degrees and go join the Marines or other branches. Certainly not when places like Amazon, Facebook's group of companies, and other large scale tech are paying a ton of money and bonuses to entry level nerds to join them. 100k+ per year out of school, working Monday through Friday (or some doing 4 day work weeks with options to work from home), with amble promotion opportunities or the chance to be headhunted by another company in a few years for more money. Or join any military branch, go through boot, advanced training, then go somewhere wonderful like 29 Palms, Ft. Hood, Fairchild, etc as the current system is set up.

I can see those who don't have the fiscal means of going to college without the GI Bill making that choice, then leaving with a few certs, going to college, then into a job with money and benefits the military will never reach. They might hang a branch sticker in their cubical or office, and that's it. No up or out, being forced out of the job they love into leadership positions to get a promotion or pay bump. The USAF for instance is hemorrhaging pilots because of policies like Up or Out. Guys who just want to fly are doing their 10 years and going to the airlines of cargo to make more money, better pay, better hours, less BS. Something like the old tech ranks would be a start.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I suspect very few are looking to take their cyber/tech certs or degrees and go join the Marines or other branches. Certainly not when places like Amazon, Facebook's group of companies, and other large scale tech are paying a ton of money and bonuses to entry level nerds to join them. 100k+ per year out of school, working Monday through Friday (or some doing 4 day work weeks with options to work from home), with amble promotion opportunities or the chance to be headhunted by another company in a few years for more money. Or join any military branch, go through boot, advanced training, then go somewhere wonderful like 29 Palms, Ft. Hood, Fairchild, etc as the current system is set up.

I can see those who don't have the fiscal means of going to college without the GI Bill making that choice, then leaving with a few certs, going to college, then into a job with money and benefits the military will never reach. They might hang a branch sticker in their cubical or office, and that's it. No up or out, being forced out of the job they love into leadership positions to get a promotion or pay bump. The USAF for instance is hemorrhaging pilots because of policies like Up or Out. Guys who just want to fly are doing their 10 years and going to the airlines of cargo to make more money, better pay, better hours, less BS. Something like the old tech ranks would be a start.

Agreed. I think investing in your current force, finding Marines with talent and sending them to actual schools, fixing morale and quality of life, fixing leadership, etc is a far better strategy to recruiting and retaining excellent Marines than just letting them skip bootcamp.

[Averageman]

Agreed. I think investing in your current force, finding Marines with talent and sending them to actual schools, fixing morale and quality of life, fixing leadership, etc is a far better strategy to recruiting and retaining excellent Marines than just letting them skip bootcamp.

I'm just saying things may not be like you remembered.
Back in the early 1980's, I worked with a Warrant Officer who was very good. If you wanted to know something about the vehicle he was the guy you went to. Bad transmission, he would split the power pack, take the tranny apart and fix it, reassemble the power pack. Now he would usually have four to six enlisted guys working with him, everyone walked away a little smarter.
Mmmm, they don't do that anymore, not only that but they wont correct lower enlisted at all. They also don't want to expand upon the knowledge they have, they don't want to show any lower enlisted anything that might help them gain knowledge.
As a Civillian embedded in that Unit, I couldn't believe it.
So bringing someone in from the outside to take responcability for what's going on in the inside is not always a good idea. It's usually counterproductive to what you seek to achieve.

[dwhitehorne]

I'm just saying things may not be like you remembered.

Mmmm, they don't do that anymore, not only that but they wont correct lower enlisted at all. They also don't want to expand upon the knowledge they have, they don't want to show any lower enlisted anything that might help them gain knowledge.

That's a shame. Pushing leadership at the lowest ranks was one of the main things the Corps had going for it over the other branches. Sad to hear the "all about me" is infecting everything. David

[chuckman]

I suspect very few are looking to take their cyber/tech certs or degrees and go join the Marines or other branches. Certainly not when places like Amazon, Facebook's group of companies, and other large scale tech are paying a ton of money and bonuses to entry level nerds to join them. 100k+ per year out of school, working Monday through Friday (or some doing 4 day work weeks with options to work from home), with amble promotion opportunities or the chance to be headhunted by another company in a few years for more money. Or join any military branch, go through boot, advanced training, then go somewhere wonderful like 29 Palms, Ft. Hood, Fairchild, etc as the current system is set up.

I can see those who don't have the fiscal means of going to college without the GI Bill making that choice, then leaving with a few certs, going to college, then into a job with money and benefits the military will never reach. They might hang a branch sticker in their cubical or office, and that's it. No up or out, being forced out of the job they love into leadership positions to get a promotion or pay bump. The USAF for instance is hemorrhaging pilots because of policies like Up or Out. Guys who just want to fly are doing their 10 years and going to the airlines of cargo to make more money, better pay, better hours, less BS. Something like the old tech ranks would be a start.

Like most things, the issue has so many 'sides': recruiting and retaining, mandated collateral duties or other billet jobs, being forced to move every 'n' years, etc. I am not sure boot vs no boot will be THE singular 'thing' that will be go/no-go. One of the AF pilot issues aside from up-or-out is requiring them to be in leadership and non-flying billets. Navy has the same issue, even though even the Navy has a history of having pilots who only fly, and do nothing else.

I still have not made up my mind on whether I like it (not that it matters one whit), but I applaud Corps leadership in looking outside the box and looking at all options. For all the branches a major paradigm shift has to occur with regard to HR and manpower management.

I have to say, I have been amazed at how many Marines (AD as well as former) who are warming up to the idea of a no-boot camp model.

[TehLlama]

I'm curious, how many super-knowledgeable and experienced techies are clamoring to join the Marine Corps and are only being stopped by the idea of Boot Camp and a being lower enlisted?

It probably literally works out to 'can the Marine Corps afford to pay people with relatively high value degrees and skills to spend weeks feeling mentally handicapped'.

[jwfuhrman]

I think (quite a while after I was in, see sigline) that the Army had a "Stripes for Skills" program. For instance, for 30+ years I've been working as a credentialed Respiratory Therapist and Sleep Tech (RRT and RPSGT respectively). Back then someone with my credentials could join the Army as an E-5 and go through some kind of Basic Training, skip AIT as you were already credentialed/trained, and report to your permanent party unit as a Sergeant E-5. This new USMC proposal HAS to include some fashion of a boot camp, right? Right? Please tell me it ain't so.

Guy I went thru my EMT Basic and then Paramedic course with 14 years ago ended up enlisting 4 years ago. Because he had 10 years street experience as a Paramedic, he went in as an E5 as a Combat Medic. Went to basic but skipped AIT and went straight to his unit.