New Colt M4A1 Socoms...yay or nay?

[c_rion]

Without any guarantees that the parts are made to TDP spec, I just don't see the point. The fact that they're being so shady about it is your answer. Pretty crazy to buy a mystery bag when used 2010 era 6920s are all over the market for cheap. I couldn't really care less about barrel profile because it's getting chopped down to 10.3 anyways, as I have zero use for a musket as a civilian. If it's outside Mk18 effective range then it's no threat to me, to say the very least.

What guarantee did you have before that "parts were made to TDP spec"? Did Colt publish a guarantee anywhere that their Commercial rifles were "made to TDP spec"? Could you point me to that public guarantee, made by Colt, that commercial rifles were made to the TDP spec? While we are on TDP spec, where in the TDP are 16 inch commercial barrels, semi auto sear web blocked receivers, semi auto commercial fire control groups, semi auto selectors, notched commercial spec hammers and the previous cut away carrier that corresponded to the notched hammer, and semi auto selectors called out in the TDP with standards for these non TDP standard components specified? The fact of the matter is Colt has never guaranteed that their commercial rifles conform to TDP specs,.It was just assumed that the commercial rifles follow the TDP spec, even though a full %50 of the Colt commercial rifle uses non standard , non milspec , non TDP specified, commercial parts. Colt has even in the past used parts in commercial rifles that absolutely do NOT conform to any TDP spec. Look up Colt plastic buffers......

[T2C]

Why on earth would you ever sell your Colt Sporter HBAR???????????????

I was competing in High Power Rifle at the time and could not get it to group well with match loads using bullets between 62g and 80g. The rifle I purchased to replace the HBAR was considerably more accurate.

[Hammer_Man]

The barrels have always been a 50/50 chance between Colt Factory or a subcontractor.( Green Mountain or Roscoe). The best way to tell on a pre-2021 Colt barrel is to look at the MP marking on the barrel. If the letters MP are together with no space between them, its a Colt factory barrel, if the MP have a space between them, the barrel was subcontracted. The FCG has always been subcontracted.Colt does not have a precision casting operation. Colt has always sub contracted the FCG out to Schmid Tool. The is what the S on the Hammer of a pre-2021 Colt rifle stands for Schmid. The current FCG is still subcontracted. The only difference is they moved away from the useless notched hammer. It served no use with the FA Bolt Carrier. The Forged front sight has always been made by subcontractors as well. Colt does not ,nor have they ever drop forged their own front sight towers. They have always bought raw forgings, and finish machined them. Same as they always have. So what was the problem with the "New" colts again? Aside from the selector stops now being left in place instead of being machined off, and the improved non-notched hammer, and a barrel that may be made by the same companies that colt has always subcontracted a portion of the production of barrels to?

They recently recalled the FCG on CR prefix rifles that used parts from a vendor that was not Schmid Tool.

[C-grunt]

They recently recalled the FCG on CR prefix rifles that used parts from a vendor that was not Schmid Tool.

What manufacturer were they? From ever I've seen the CR models still use Schmid Tool LPK.

[Hammer_Man]

What manufacturer were they? From ever I've seen the CR models still use Schmid Tool LPK.

The recent crop of CR guns were a hodge podge of parts. Some had Schmid Tool parts and cage code marked uppers, and others did not, and everything in between. Colt hasn’t disclosed who made the mystery parts, but they’re unmarked and in my opinion no better than any of the myriad of cheap suppliers you find out there.

[Voodoochild]

Keep this civil and on topic or keep out. Insults aren't called for and aren't needed.

[okie]

What guarantee did you have before that "parts were made to TDP spec"? Did Colt publish a guarantee anywhere that their Commercial rifles were "made to TDP spec"? Could you point me to that public guarantee, made by Colt, that commercial rifles were made to the TDP spec? While we are on TDP spec, where in the TDP are 16 inch commercial barrels, semi auto sear web blocked receivers, semi auto commercial fire control groups, semi auto selectors, notched commercial spec hammers and the previous cut away carrier that corresponded to the notched hammer, and semi auto selectors called out in the TDP with standards for these non TDP standard components specified? The fact of the matter is Colt has never guaranteed that their commercial rifles conform to TDP specs,.It was just assumed that the commercial rifles follow the TDP spec, even though a full %50 of the Colt commercial rifle uses non standard , non milspec , non TDP specified, commercial parts. Colt has even in the past used parts in commercial rifles that absolutely do NOT conform to any TDP spec. Look up Colt plastic buffers......

They were super transparent about it at that time. They let writers into the factory to see the single assembly line for themselves, and indeed they were pulling parts from the same bins regardless whether it was an M4 or 6920, regardless of who the end user was. Employees from that era have also confirmed it.

There are also no distinguishing marks that would make a contract BCG to where it could be differentiated from a commercially sold one. In other words, they couldn't have been up to anything, because the risk of putting a non TDP part in a contract rifle was too high. Basically the way the line was set up and the way the parts were marked you just knew beyond any doubt you were getting the same parts as the guys in Iraq. Whether you were a green beret or a dirt shooter you were getting the same stuff. That's basically unheard of, so it was a big deal when they did it, that was much publicized back then.

The only differences were the barrels and FCGs. But the barrel blanks were the same, and they were also supplying 16 inch barrels and SA FCGs to police and even foreign military who didn't want grunts to have giggle switches. For example, Mexico's DoD orders at least some of their M4s in semi with 16 inch barrels. They're even marked LE6920 and have any random roll mark that Colt is doing whenever the order gets placed.

But with the markings not consistent with TDP, you know two things now. First of all, those parts can't be put in contract guns. Second, that they have two lines, obviously, because they couldn't risk getting those parts mixed up. Ergo, our stuff can't be coming out of the same bin anymore. So they apparently have a bin of parts for the government and another one for us lowly civilians.

The sub contracted stuff might be okay, I don't know. If it were though, they wouldn't really have any good reason to not put the correct markings on it. The fact that they're not would indicate those can't go in contract rifles and therefore implies they're not TDP, which would mean less quality control, less testing, etc. Like there's literally zero plausible excuse to have two separate lines, unless they're skipping steps on our stuff to save money. That's the bottom line.

ETA: Also couldn't really care less about the FSB. It's the BCGs I'm most concerned with, followed by the barrels. I'm also not opposed to them sub contracting whatever they want, as long as it's done the right way, i.e. according to the TDP.

[okie]

As a side not, I just ordered a Colt trigger from Armsunlimitted and it's marked F4. Came in a package with all Colt's branding and everything. No S anywhere I can see. Internet search is saying they're mim parts from India???

[C-grunt]

They were super transparent about it at that time. They let writers into the factory to see the single assembly line for themselves, and indeed they were pulling parts from the same bins regardless whether it was an M4 or 6920, regardless of who the end user was. Employees from that era have also confirmed it.

There are also no distinguishing marks that would make a contract BCG to where it could be differentiated from a commercially sold one. In other words, they couldn't have been up to anything, because the risk of putting a non TDP part in a contract rifle was too high. Basically the way the line was set up and the way the parts were marked you just knew beyond any doubt you were getting the same parts as the guys in Iraq. Whether you were a green beret or a dirt shooter you were getting the same stuff. That's basically unheard of, so it was a big deal when they did it, that was much publicized back then.

The only differences were the barrels and FCGs. But the barrel blanks were the same, and they were also supplying 16 inch barrels and SA FCGs to police and even foreign military who didn't want grunts to have giggle switches. For example, Mexico's DoD orders at least some of their M4s in semi with 16 inch barrels. They're even marked LE6920 and have any random roll mark that Colt is doing whenever the order gets placed.

But with the markings not consistent with TDP, you know two things now. First of all, those parts can't be put in contract guns. Second, that they have two lines, obviously, because they couldn't risk getting those parts mixed up. Ergo, our stuff can't be coming out of the same bin anymore. So they apparently have a bin of parts for the government and another one for us lowly civilians.

The sub contracted stuff might be okay, I don't know. If it were though, they wouldn't really have any good reason to not put the correct markings on it. The fact that they're not would indicate those can't go in contract rifles and therefore implies they're not TDP, which would mean less quality control, less testing, etc. Like there's literally zero plausible excuse to have two separate lines, unless they're skipping steps on our stuff to save money. That's the bottom line.

ETA: Also couldn't really care less about the FSB. It's the BCGs I'm most concerned with, followed by the barrels. I'm also not opposed to them sub contracting whatever they want, as long as it's done the right way, i.e. according to the TDP.

What TDP markings are missing?

[C-grunt]

As a side not, I just ordered a Colt trigger from Armsunlimitted and it's marked F4. Came in a package with all Colt's branding and everything. No S anywhere I can see. Internet search is saying they're mim parts from India???

Thats one of the recall triggers. Send it back.

From the research Ive done, BCM used the F marked hammers back around 2015. Anyone known who they got their FCG parts from?