Cut the tang? (SAIGA)

[m4brian]

It seems that the best stock solution to the AK may be a folding m4 or at least a stationary m4 adapter. I like the Zhukov and it’s ability to adjust pull and fold, but it may not prove durable enough.

Thinking of this:

https://www.carolinashooterssupply.c...061.1640030411

And this:

https://doublestarusa.com/fsm-pb-pus...-boss-a500pb-k

With this:

https://www.carolinashooterssupply.c...ss-pignose.htm

But these solutions are so obscure that there is no feedback on the Internet as to whether this folding stock situation would allow the use of optics on the left side or even the charger on the right side. But with the trunion adapter you could also run the m4 stock straight without folding and lose nothing over a dedicated m4 adapter.

Anyone with experience with this adapter?

Talk me out of cutting my tang…

(I have a JMAC adapter on anther gun and while it’s great, this adapter solution allows you to adjust the height also and of course add some limited array of ACE/other stocks.

Thanks.

[SteyrAUG]

One of my buddies bought a SGL rifle and cut the tang to install a folder, not sure I could have done it myself. I guess if you are definitely going to own the rifle FOREVER with zero desire to sell or trade it's ok. But I try and avoid perm modifications of anything high quality or otherwise no longer imported.

Probably years of seeing d'cked up HK prebans colored my thinking. I've seen some serious bubba horrors inflicted on some 91s.

[georgeib]

Or you could just get the Bonesteel Arms folder with the buffer tube built in, and won't have to remove the tang.

https://www.bonesteelarms.com/produc...folding-stock/

[m4brian]

Thanks for the input.

I don’t like the bone steel system for two reasons: the ones leaving the tang extend the mechanism and look knarly. They also don’t lock in the folded position.

With the ACE, you get some decent looking options with short hinges, even push button if you want it. ACE does a ROTTEN job of marketing so there are no comprehensive videos demonstrating installation AND use options. Nada. There are a few by users but they also don’t show much. This system could be great, but you can’t know it from the web.

No plans to sell either.

[eodinert]

While the adjustability of an M4 stock might add utility, a folding M4 stock is much wider than a stock needs to be and makes a poor folder.

I'm in the 'get a rifle designed with a good folder' camp myself.

[Chris Bonesteel]

Thanks for the input.

I don’t like the bone steel system for two reasons: the ones leaving the tang extend the mechanism and look knarly. They also don’t lock in the folded position.

With the ACE, you get some decent looking options with short hinges, even push button if you want it. ACE does a ROTTEN job of marketing so there are no comprehensive videos demonstrating installation AND use options. Nada. There are a few by users but they also don’t show much. This system could be great, but you can’t know it from the web.

No plans to sell either.

Chris Bonesteel here, so obviously biased. However I think you should take a closer look at both our m4 stocks and the ace before you decide.

Here is a thread with side by side comparison. Note that this is old thread with our version 1 hinge, our current version of hinge is 1/4" shorter(height) and about 1/2 oz lighter.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ak-47/Si...ks_/64-151763/

As for extending the mechanism, that is only true if you unfairly do not count the threaded interface between "adapter" and tube as part of the mechanism. Our integrated m4 tubes allow the stock to collapse to the same length as any fixed threaded m4 tube. And significantly shorter than any folding threaded m4 tube.

As for looking gnarly, thats opinion, and I wont attempt to sway yours.

Our stocks definitely do not lock in the folded position, however they are held in place by a cam and spring. So they can be easily deployed, but do not just flop around. Note that standard ace hinges also do not lock folded, and for that "feature" you would need the pushbutton.

As for ace and marketing. You missed the boat on that one. They used to market heavily, and for several years were discussed thouroughly, as being the best option for folding stocks. They have since fallen out of favor, for several reasons. For one, the lockup on them is not particularly solid, all have at least some, and some have significant wobble when locked, typically worse in the push button versions. Another important reason favorability for them has died out is the attachment method, using 2 pairs of 10-32 screws to attach everything is certainly less than ideal, the screws are known to come loose and can then snap off easily. There is of course also cutting off the tang, and while this does not reflect upon the quality of finished installation, many are hesitant to do something irreversible to their rifles.

If folding is not important, and you are looking for fixed attachment of m4 stock, I would still suggest you stay away from ace. And would recommend leaning towards a vltor or caa style tube. There is no reason for the added weight and length of using a threaded tube.

[utahjeepr]

If you do decide to cut the tang, get yourself a quality forged trunnion now as well as the rivets. They may be much harder to source in the future.

[m4brian]

Chris Bonesteel here, so obviously biased. However I think you should take a closer look at both our m4 stocks and the ace before you decide.

Chris: Bravo sir on stepping into this. You have quality products and that is well known. I finally saw that thread the other day. My aesthetic comments are just that - just like the smaller/shorter profile. Your rig with the Galil stock looks pretty good and I'm sure is solid.

I did not know and could not find reviews attesting to the ACE system failing and being lose, but your comments are respected. My comments on marketing are recent as this is the first time I was considering this, and could find nothing on the www beyond a few videos demonstrating nothing about how the system folded, etc.

This all happened for 2 reasons. I love the Zhukov S Stock, but consider the hinge to be a bad deal in the long run - too bad they did not make the hinge aluminum. Also, I like the AK 12 functionality with a folder/M4 capability. The thread you posted is intriguing and I wonder if your system folds and clears a mounted optic - which is a big deal. (Ooops - just saw you have a WIDE folder). I'd like to see more pics of these on rifles. I suppose folding to the right is OK as long as you can clear the bolt, but that is also a height game, and too low makes optics tough.

I do like the resistance the Zhukov gives when folded - it is easy to deploy but solidly stays folded.

I was considering ACE only because of the CSS backplate - which is a nifty gateway to multiple stocks.

But maybe if I cut the tang, the JMAC 1913 is a better way to go as you can adjust height and use all manner of newer stocks including SIG MPX.

I MAY go back to straight M4 and KISS. Now there is the height thing.

Thanks again for jumping into the fray here. Your comments are insightful in a world currently without much data.

[Bret]

Talk me out of cutting my tang…

Whatever you do, don't cut the tang! Cutting the tang of a Saiga that can no longer be imported would be sacrilege. Another option which is to sell the Saiga and buy an AK that's made from the start to be a side folder. Given the limited supply of the Saiga, I bet the ultimate cost would wash out.

[m4brian]

I have decided that I won’t cut the tang. I’ve converted the front and the rear had been done by RWC. The m4 stock options abound and they are functional. Not sure which are strongest but I have mounted the JMAC and it seems solid as heck. I’m sure RD is another.

I guess I need an education on “m4 stock fragility” as I’ve only heard comments twice on forums and AKOU did some reasonable tests on the RD w/MFT Minimalist and it seems durable enough.

LOP adjustment is of pretty good utility.

I can always throw a perfectly durable polymer stock back on.

I won’t get rid of a Russian made gun. Doesn’t make sense and folding isn’t a must.