Cut the tang? (SAIGA)

[Circle_10]

Chris Bonesteel here, so obviously biased. However I think you should take a closer look at both our m4 stocks and the ace before you decide.

Here is a thread with side by side comparison. Note that this is old thread with our version 1 hinge, our current version of hinge is 1/4" shorter(height) and about 1/2 oz lighter.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ak-47/Si...ks_/64-151763/

As for extending the mechanism, that is only true if you unfairly do not count the threaded interface between "adapter" and tube as part of the mechanism. Our integrated m4 tubes allow the stock to collapse to the same length as any fixed threaded m4 tube. And significantly shorter than any folding threaded m4 tube.

As for looking gnarly, thats opinion, and I wont attempt to sway yours.

Our stocks definitely do not lock in the folded position, however they are held in place by a cam and spring. So they can be easily deployed, but do not just flop around. Note that standard ace hinges also do not lock folded, and for that "feature" you would need the pushbutton.

As for ace and marketing. You missed the boat on that one. They used to market heavily, and for several years were discussed thouroughly, as being the best option for folding stocks. They have since fallen out of favor, for several reasons. For one, the lockup on them is not particularly solid, all have at least some, and some have significant wobble when locked, typically worse in the push button versions. Another important reason favorability for them has died out is the attachment method, using 2 pairs of 10-32 screws to attach everything is certainly less than ideal, the screws are known to come loose and can then snap off easily. There is of course also cutting off the tang, and while this does not reflect upon the quality of finished installation, many are hesitant to do something irreversible to their rifles.

If folding is not important, and you are looking for fixed attachment of m4 stock, I would still suggest you stay away from ace. And would recommend leaning towards a vltor or caa style tube. There is no reason for the added weight and length of using a threaded tube.

Two questions:

Firstly have you considered incorporating a small magnet into your stock that might provide additional retention of the stock in the folded position against the receiver, in a manner similar to the CZ Scorpion stock?


Secondly, don’t hate me for this question, as it’s kind of nitpicky, but have you considered altering the geometry of the stock slightly so the lower strut angles down at a point farther along its length so that there is less obstruction of the trigger when folded? Picture the old style Polish Beryl sidefolder or the stock on the Arsenal SAM7SF. In the pics of your stock that I’ve seen it appears that because the lower strut starts to angle down at a point closer to the hinge, that when folded it interferes with access to the trigger more than necessary. From what I understand the trigger is still accessible even with your stock in the folded position but it seems like a slight change to the lines of the stock could further improve this.
Again, not trying to be an asshole, just curious.

[Chris Bonesteel]

Two questions:

Firstly have you considered incorporating a small magnet into your stock that might provide additional retention of the stock in the folded position against the receiver, in a manner similar to the CZ Scorpion stock?


Secondly, don’t hate me for this question, as it’s kind of nitpicky, but have you considered altering the geometry of the stock slightly so the lower strut angles down at a point farther along its length so that there is less obstruction of the trigger when folded? Picture the old style Polish Beryl sidefolder or the stock on the Arsenal SAM7SF. In the pics of your stock that I’ve seen it appears that because the lower strut starts to angle down at a point closer to the hinge, that when folded it interferes with access to the trigger more than necessary. From what I understand the trigger is still accessible even with your stock in the folded position but it seems like a slight change to the lines of the stock could further improve this.
Again, not trying to be an asshole, just curious.

1. I dont feel the magnet is necessary, the stocks stay folded quite well with just the spring.

2. We have recently redesigned our galil stocks, they now have a forged buttplate and a steeper angle for the lower strut giving ample room for the firing hand. We shaved a small bit of weight off them with the switch in buttplates as well.

Thanks for your feedback.

[Circle_10]

1. I dont feel the magnet is necessary, the stocks stay folded quite well with just the spring.

2. We have recently redesigned our galil stocks, they now have a forged buttplate and a steeper angle for the lower strut giving ample room for the firing hand. We shaved a small bit of weight off them with the switch in buttplates as well.

Thanks for your feedback.

I wasn’t aware you had redesigned the stock. Could you post some pics of the updated version?

[SteyrAUG]

1. I dont feel the magnet is necessary, the stocks stay folded quite well with just the spring.

2. We have recently redesigned our galil stocks, they now have a forged buttplate and a steeper angle for the lower strut giving ample room for the firing hand. We shaved a small bit of weight off them with the switch in buttplates as well.

Thanks for your feedback.

Thanks for chiming in. But put your company info in your sigline, it's a forum rule thing and I'd hate to see you get put on time out because you didn't know that. Also helps everyone know where everyone is coming from.

Now that I've done my good deed for the day, back to the discussion at hand.

[leoAR]

I bought 2 pre-FIME SGL21s, one for me and another for my brother, at a price that makes me wish I’d purchased many more. Both were the fixed stock version, which I replaced with the Zhukov folder. The Magpul was nice but seemed overly heavy, and the folder latch was demonstrable a weak point.
I settled on the Bonesteel Galil type folder (right side), and I’m very pleased with the overall quality. The Bonesteel seems much lighter than the Zhukov and the latch has a strong lockup.
I’d advocate to not cut the stock tang.

[titsonritz]

I would not cut the tang on a Saiga. As mentioned the Bonesteel/CNC Warrior does not require it.

[m4brian]

I bought 2 pre-FIME SGL21s…
I settled on the Bonesteel Galil type folder (right side), and I’m very pleased with the overall quality. The Bonesteel seems much lighter than the Zhukov and the latch has a strong lockup.
I’d advocate to not cut the stock tang.

Again, I’ve been talked out of cutting the tang. Good feedback on this forum per usual.

I really don’t find the Zhukov too heavy.
Ergonomically, it is near perfect unless you use a high mount optic and then you can also use a riser. Magpul should make a Gen 2 with a different folding latch but maybe that would make it too heavy. The cheek weld and ability to lengthen, and folding/opening resistance was perfect. I’ll hAve to admit, MACs video upon freezing it did real brain damage on me. I’ve been in conditions like that too many times…

Would love more real reviews on the BS though. The light tension in the folded position holds me back.

For now I might go with an m4 adapter till someone runs over them in a truck and gives me a new headache…

[georgeib]

Would love more real reviews on the BS though. The light tension in the folded position holds me back.

I had the M4 style Bonesteel on a Vepr, and I never felt that the stock was too lightly tensioned when folded. It takes a deliberate motion to unfold it. If I were to get another AK, a non-collapsible Bonesteel stock would be one of the very first things I'd be purchasing.

[m4brian]

I had the M4 style Bonesteel on a Vepr, and I never felt that the stock was too lightly tensioned when folded. It takes a deliberate motion to unfold it. If I were to get another AK, a non-collapsible Bonesteel stock would be one of the very first things I'd be purchasing.

Which model and why? They do have a wide folding M4 stock now. Did yours fold with optics or allow you to use the FCG if right sided? Thanks.

[MadAngler1]

It seems that the best stock solution to the AK may be a folding m4 or at least a stationary m4 adapter. I like the Zhukov and it’s ability to adjust pull and fold, but it may not prove durable enough.

Thinking of this:

https://www.carolinashooterssupply.c...061.1640030411

And this:

https://doublestarusa.com/fsm-pb-pus...-boss-a500pb-k

With this:

https://www.carolinashooterssupply.c...ss-pignose.htm

But these solutions are so obscure that there is no feedback on the Internet as to whether this folding stock situation would allow the use of optics on the left side or even the charger on the right side. But with the trunion adapter you could also run the m4 stock straight without folding and lose nothing over a dedicated m4 adapter.

Anyone with experience with this adapter?

Talk me out of cutting my tang…

(I have a JMAC adapter on anther gun and while it’s great, this adapter solution allows you to adjust the height also and of course add some limited array of ACE/other stocks.

Thanks.

Your Saiga is too damn valuable for any of that stuff, short of installing a Rifle Dynamics or Definitive Arms M4 stock adapter.

I would seriously call up a good reputable AK smith (Rifle Dynamics, Mesa Kinetic Research, etc) and discuss this with them. Find a real pro at Saiga conversions if you want a side folding capability on the rifle. I would strongly consider using a Zenitco stock for authenticity unless you want a M4 stock:

https://en.zenitco.ru/sovmestimost/ak-103/

I have a side folding KR-103 that I plan on “pimping up” with Zenitco hardware, since it uses the original diameter Russian pin and folding mechanism.

Otherwise, I would drop in a JMacs, RD or Definitive arms M4 stock adapter. I use a Definitive Arms M4 stock adapter on my SAR-2 and Zastava M70 with great success. Definitive Arms did a great job with making the adapter relatively flush fit and the appropriate height relative to the axis of the bore.

You are correct. Nothing beats a M4 stock on an AK, short of a Zenitco.

Edited to add: Kudos to Mr. Bonesteel for posting. I have no experience with your products, but they look well made: https://www.bonesteelarms.com/produc...folding-stock/