Setting up rifles for NVGs.

[okie]

Since you mentioned cans.

IMHO, a can is not necessarily a "must have" at night but they are definitely your friend.

Their flash suppression capabilities are greatly exaggerated, that's for sure. No silencer is any match for a dedicated flash hider like the Smith or Meyers. But in terms of a device that does everything, silencers are extremely effective. In addition to suppressing sound, they also make for an extremely effective brake. They're the one and only effective brake I know of that does double duty as a pretty acceptable flash hider, as well. I've heard people make the claim that they reduce recoil by two thirds, and that's about my perception of them.

But yea, the idea that you have to have one to shoot at night is erroneous. A good flash hider will do better.

[eric0311]

The issue remains - flash suppression or not… you are still kicking off IR energy with an Illuminator/Laser prior to engaging with your weapon. You are creating more signature by doing so… passive shooting decreases your signature, not fully eliminating it entirely.

[okie]

The issue remains - flash suppression or not… you are still kicking off IR energy with an Illuminator/Laser prior to engaging with your weapon. You are creating more signature by doing so… passive shooting decreases your signature, not fully eliminating it entirely.

I mean you fire the laser about half a second before pulling the trigger. And passive aiming doesn't reduce the need for active illumination. Bottom line is shoot and move, because if you're shooting and they have nods they know exactly where you are anyways.

[Defaultmp3]

I mean you fire the laser about half a second before pulling the trigger.

Not necessarily; I've spent plenty of times holding a door or hallway while passive, that's going to be faster than reacting to the enemy and then having to line up the laser again. There's also the fact that sometimes people use cover poorly, and if they originally didn't know you were there, you can easily take your time to line up the shot properly without giving away the fact that they are not utilizing cover properly, or they have a gap in their coverage.

And passive aiming doesn't reduce the need for active illumination.

Uh... what? You can absolutely shoot passively without actively illumination.

Bottom line is shoot and move, because if you're shooting and they have nods they know exactly where you are anyways.

Not necessarily, especially if you're fighting several elements at once. Going passive means you can engage one element without giving away your position to another element, and the element under fire would have to spend time and energy communicating your position. Beyond that, given the narrow FOV of most NODs, you can easily engage passively and be gone before they get a pin on your location, if you take advantage of terrain/building layout; I've seen folks get be able to dump a full mag into other people, getting good hits in, and the guys getting shot have no idea where they're being hit from, because the shooter was going passive, and the guys getting shot didn't know the lay out of the shoothouse and didn't know where to look.

[okie]

Not necessarily; I've spent plenty of times holding a door or hallway while passive, that's going to be faster than reacting to the enemy and then having to line up the laser again. There's also the fact that sometimes people use cover poorly, and if they originally didn't know you were there, you can easily take your time to line up the shot properly without giving away the fact that they are not utilizing cover properly, or they have a gap in their coverage.

Uh... what? You can absolutely shoot passively without actively illumination.

Not necessarily, especially if you're fighting several elements at once. Going passive means you can engage one element without giving away your position to another element, and the element under fire would have to spend time and energy communicating your position. Beyond that, given the narrow FOV of most NODs, you can easily engage passively and be gone before they get a pin on your location, if you take advantage of terrain/building layout; I've seen folks get be able to dump a full mag into other people, getting good hits in, and the guys getting shot have no idea where they're being hit from, because the shooter was going passive, and the guys getting shot didn't know the lay out of the shoothouse and didn't know where to look.

Have you actually seen muzzle flash through nods? You don't even have to have direct line of sight to it. Like you could be hiding behind a wall or in some brush or something and someone can still see that flash from a long ass ways away. Especially if it's like a Mk18 or whatever with a short little barrel and full house 5.56 (as opposed to the mouse fart 223 most people practice with).

[Defaultmp3]

Have you actually seen muzzle flash through nods? You don't even have to have direct line of sight to it. Like you could be hiding behind a wall or in some brush or something and someone can still see that flash from a long ass ways away. Especially if it's like a Mk18 or whatever with a short little barrel and full house 5.56 (as opposed to the mouse fart 223 most people practice with).

All of my rifles are run suppressed when using live ammo, so there is minimal visual signature, even under NODs, IME. While you can certainly see it if you're looking its direction, no large flash exists that would expose your position if you were out of LOS. The point is that with the limited FOV of most NODs, you can use the terrain to your advantage, and be able to mask any visual signature from the rifle while firing, so long as your adversary doesn't have you in their NOD's FOV. Again, I have seen multiple times under FoF where folks with NODs have no idea where they are being fired upon, when they were being engaged by roleplayers utilizing passive aiming; the muzzle flash from the Sims/FoF alone wasn't enough to give away the roleplayer's position when the students do not have the student in their FOV.

[utahjeepr]

Passive/active both have their place, largely dependent on the operational environment. One would be wise to learn to do both, and have the weapon set up accordingly. Passive is gonna be more important for mil/le than the average civvy but it is still a good thing to know.

[okie]

All of my rifles are run suppressed when using live ammo, so there is minimal visual signature, even under NODs, IME. While you can certainly see it if you're looking its direction, no large flash exists that would expose your position if you were out of LOS. The point is that with the limited FOV of most NODs, you can use the terrain to your advantage, and be able to mask any visual signature from the rifle while firing, so long as your adversary doesn't have you in their NOD's FOV. Again, I have seen multiple times under FoF where folks with NODs have no idea where they are being fired upon, when they were being engaged by roleplayers utilizing passive aiming; the muzzle flash from the Sims/FoF alone wasn't enough to give away the roleplayer's position when the students do not have the student in their FOV.

Simulated stuff has virtually no flash.

[Defaultmp3]

Simulated stuff has virtually no flash.

Yeah... about as much as a suppressed rifle.

[okie]

Yeah... about as much as a suppressed rifle.

That's simply not true.