Ok, experts, pro's and commando's--SP5 or BT APC9 Pro?

**okie** · 01-05-22, 12:20

Originally Posted by mark5pt56

Think I may go with the BT, seems like there's no real negatives. My former life of never ending days on the range and a "box" of ammo (case or two) was a mere radio call are over so wearing one out is most likely not occurring. I know the SP5 has it's cult following and yes, they are just plain cool, but maybe later. I was looking at spare parts, appears they are available if needed. Any input as what ones I may need as spares? Guessing the usual springs, maybe extractor, firing pin? Or is it like having spares for a USP?

Have you decided yet whether you're going with the Glock mag lower or the standard proprietary mags?

**markm** · 01-05-22, 12:33

Originally Posted by mark5pt56

Think I may go with the BT, seems like there's no real negatives.

Not a bad pick for a fun gun. The SP5 is the MP5 copy right? I really can't seem love that operating knob on the Mp5. I'm too spoiled on the AR empty mag lock back that you get with the newer sub guns.

**gunnerblue** · 01-05-22, 12:49

I picked up a GHM9k with the Pro-G lower (same lower as available on the APC). Were I not so invested in double stack 9mm Glock mags I mightve gone with the B&T magazine since, as I understand, a staggered feed mag is the better option for a subgun-type design. That said, I haven't encountered any issues running 147 grain hollowpoints (Ranger, Gold Dot) or flat nosed played bullets. The only issue I've had was swapping out the pistol grip- it attaches in the same manner as on an AR but the polymer receiver cannot handle much torque from he grip screw. Anything more than mildly hand tight will break the section of the receiver into which the grip screw threads. This is straight from B&T who were very kind in shipping me a brand new receiver when I, of course, broke mine.

**okie** · 01-05-22, 12:51

Originally Posted by markm

Not a bad pick for a fun gun. The SP5 is the MP5 copy right? I really can't seem love that operating knob on the Mp5. I'm too spoiled on the AR empty mag lock back that you get with the newer sub guns.

Why do you say that? Is there something about it that makes it not okay for "real" stuff?

**yoni** · 01-05-22, 13:36

If we are honest the reason the MP5 is what it became is it was so different from the prior generation of sub guns open bolt, non bolt hold open on empty mag.

So they did closed bolt, without bolt hold open, it is a Europe thing.

I love my PTR32, because it is the best of the guns that are 7.62x39, I wish it had a bolt hold open on empty mag.

Can a person do good work with MP5, of course they can. The same way they can with 1911 or Hi Power.

**Wake27** · 01-05-22, 13:47

Originally Posted by okie

My main complaint with my SBRs is the gas to face. To get the noise to anything verging on tolerable, you end up changing the way it's gassed, making it less reliable (or at least more finicky), still getting some gas to face, making the action filthy, etc. I've had some failures to extract that were caused by the heavy fouling. I mean the cases go in pre fouled, so it's like a worst-case scenario.

I've not had any catastrophic failures yet, but I do know for a fact that SOF carry spare BCGs for their Mk18s when out in the field. From what I've gathered, all units have at least the weapons sergeant carrying a spare, and I know of at least one in the 10th where every single man carries one on his person as part of their unit's SOP. That's coming directly from their innovation officer, so not rumor.

Even if your bolt makes it to 6k, your barrel's gas port is pretty much trashed by that time. And they're already super overgassed to begin with. They'll run an H4 out of the box, and you will straight need an H3 after a few thousand rounds.

The new 223 prices are the icing on the cake, though. I've shot through all my stockpile, so now I have to either dip into my M855 (which is kind of pointless because I can't shoot steel with it), or pay like 50 cents a round for tula, which I don't think I can bring myself to do. I might look into reloading, I don't know. I started saving my brass when all that went down, just in case.

But yea, it was easy enough to overlook those shortcomings when 223 was cheap. Now not so much.

10th Special Forces Group?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**mark5pt56** · 01-05-22, 14:36

Good to hear on the grip screw as I could briefly close a #3 Captains of Crush grip and would've been in the same boat. I think the standard lower and add another Glock most likely-or Sig as I have a few of each. As Yoni said, that's one heck of an endorsement with that unit using them.

**markm** · 01-05-22, 14:44

Originally Posted by okie

Why do you say that? Is there something about it that makes it not okay for "real" stuff?

Not at all. Just addressing the OP's original intent for the pick. I find the B&T more enjoyable as it's ergo is closer to the AR platform I've spent my life shooting.