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Thread: Will the Army CFT be Adopted?

  1. #1
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    Will the Army CFT be Adopted?

    Of course claims of gender discrimination exist, and perhaps legit concerns over logistics, but from an outsiders/non mil POV, seems like a major step in the right direction to test a wider range of basic fitness/performance tests for war fighters. What say you?

    Can the Army's New Fitness Test Survive Critics and Become Official in April?

    Nearly 10 years in the making, the Army plans to implement its controversial new fitness test later this spring. But a new batch of critiques about gender discrimination and the sheer logistical challenge of administering and training for the new test could imperil that deadline.

    Creating the new Army Combat Fitness Test, or ACFT, has been a monumental undertaking for the service. The mission: rework how the force judges whether someone is physically fit enough to serve and fight America's wars. This is the first time since the 1980s that fitness has had any major overhaul in the Army.

    Army leaders tested their new fitness standards in 2019, initiating a campaign to gather data that would decide which events ended up becoming a part of the final test, and how they would be scored. The goal was to have all soldiers judged by the new metrics in October 2020, but the ACFT immediately hit turbulence.

    Cont:

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/...ial-april.html
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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    I don't know the point of the article. The AFCT has already BEEN adopted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimP View Post
    I don't know the point of the article. The AFCT has already BEEN adopted.
    According to the article dated 1/5/22 it's not formally/officially adopted until April if i understand correctly. That's not accurate? Army Times says same:

    https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-...il-as-planned/
    - Will

    General Performance/Fitness Advice for all

    www.BrinkZone.com

    LE/Mil specific info:

    https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/

    “Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimP View Post
    I don't know the point of the article. The AFCT has already BEEN adopted.
    Yeah its not though, at least not fully. The Army currently does not have a test of record which is strange. Many use either the ACFT or APFT based on different circumstances but they haven't even solidifed scoring standards for the AFCT yet.

    It should be adopted. The logistics are definitely difficult but it is enough of a benefit to work through that problem as it is a much better look at true physical capability. The grading standard is more complicated as I see arguments both ways but I don't think there should be a male or female standard, especially if arguments are being made to remove names and/or photos from other processes like promotion boards in an attempt to minimize racial and sexual discrimination.
    Sic semper tyrannis.

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    Will it be adopted? Probably.

    Will it be a viable diagnostic test for the force and readiness for combat? No.

    You could probably give it wherever troops are deployed (like Syria and other places downrange, right now) if you brought all the equipment. It might be good for determing true combat fitness -- but I doubt the force is ready to reclassify those who fail to meet "Heavy" combat requirements into other job fields.

    Not a good tool for measuring groups en masse, and not worth the time for just a few Soldiers (say half-a-dozen to go to a school requiring objective minimum scores).

    You could give the old APFT anywhere, including on ship or around a FOB. All you needed was a stop watch, a sheet of paper, and a writing tool to record reps to determine score on tables on the back of a single score card or off the web.

    As posted above there are no pass-fail tables, and everyone is on the same raw test score basis -- no allowance or deviation-exception for age, sex, or profiles.

    If anyone studies mass mobilization and intake requirements to move hordes of civilians into uniform (i.e., WWII, Korea, and Vietnam) and processing and verification for routine schools (basic leadership classes, specialty skill schools like airborne, air assault, and Ranger), the Army Command Good Idea Fairy didn't think this through. Imagine a 150-man company of trainees -- an ACFT takes hours and LOTS of supporting man-hours (timers and graders).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinister View Post
    Will it be a adopted? Probably.

    Will it be a viable diagnostic test for the force and readiness for combat? No.

    You could probably give it wherever troops are deployed (like Syria and other places downrange, right now) if you brought all the equipment. It might be good for determing true combat fitness -- but I doubt the force is ready to reclassify those who fail to meet "Heavy" combat requirements into other job fields.

    Not a good tool for measuring groups en masse, and not worth the time for just a few Soldiers (say half-a-dozen to go to a school requiring objective minimum scores).

    You could give the old APFT anywhere, including on ship or around a FOB. All you needed was a stop watch, a sheet of paper, and a writing tool to record reps to determine score on tables on the back of a single score card or off the web.

    As posted above there are no pass-fail tables, and everyone is on the same raw test score basis -- no allowance or deviation-exception for age, sex, or profiles.

    If anyone studies mass mobilization and intake requirements to move hordes of civilians into uniform (i.e., WWII, Korea, and Vietnam) and processing and verification for routine schools (basic leadership classes, specialty skill schools like airborne, air assault, and Ranger), the Army Command Good Idea Fairy didn't think this through. Imagine a 150-man company of trainees -- an ACFT takes hours and LOTS of supporting man-hours (timers and graders).
    That is very problematic and I don't know how that one should be worked out.
    Sic semper tyrannis.

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    One aspect I don't think they considered or thought through enough, is the consequences of the AFCT on the Guard/Reserves. To me, they are a formidable portion of our forces, and this test is just not a good fit for the part-time soldiers. They don't have the ability/capability to train daily, weekly, even monthly, on the equipment that is being used for the ACFT. At least with the old APFT, a soldier could do their own training at home. I think that is one reason why there has been a delay in full implementation of the new test; as well for how poorly the active duty female soldiers have been performing.

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    The Regular Army doesn't have all the equipment they need -- how are the Guard and Reserve supposed to buy and distribute enough sets down to every battalion-size armory (let alone companies)?

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    Will the Army CFT be Adopted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukr View Post
    One aspect I don't think they considered or thought through enough, is the consequences of the AFCT on the Guard/Reserves. To me, they are a formidable portion of our forces, and this test is just not a good fit for the part-time soldiers. They don't have the ability/capability to train daily, weekly, even monthly, on the equipment that is being used for the ACFT. At least with the old APFT, a soldier could do their own training at home. I think that is one reason why there has been a delay in full implementation of the new test; as well for how poorly the active duty female soldiers have been performing.

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    I'm not sure that's a good argument. The test is a good measure of a wide range of physical performance that mimic common movements in combat or even the field. Not having constant access to Army provided equipment doesn't change that. All Soldiers shouldn't have to pay out of pocket for a gym membership but the idea that if the Army has to provide every thing anyone could ever need to be successful is a severe handicap and is one of the most common problems I have with junior Soldiers and NCOs.
    Last edited by Wake27; 01-06-22 at 22:19.
    Sic semper tyrannis.

  10. #10
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    Precisely.

    For the individual Soldier (even more so for a Guardsman-Reservist or someone not around a military gym/installation -- how in the hell do you do diagnostics to see if you are maintaining-sustaining, let alone improving or declining)?

    The APFT wasn't close to perfect by ANY means ... but the Army asked smart people over the years to come up with a diagnostic tool that didn't take equipment or tools (like monkey bars, run-trip-and-fall shuttles, medicine balls, bars, bar-bells, kettle bells, SKEDCOs, etc.) and officers and NCOs gave them the APFT with gender-age performance standards and height-weight criteria.

    The entire Army (all components and branches including the ROTC) were the lab and guinea pigs for this change, and we're stuck with a screaming abortion three-four months out from codifying this for the next 40 years.

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