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Thread: Cowitness and the Ultimak on an AK - a bit disappointing

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4brian View Post
    Put an Ultimak on my SAIGA with a first gen primary arms micro, and even tried my MD 25 on it and can BARELY get cowitness. Hard to pick up and you really cannot see the bottom of the round cutout on the ears. I don't have this problem on a VZ 58 with an NEA rail.

    It is cowtinessed? yes, but so low as to be kind of a joke.

    Causes? My front sight is set nicely and I want to leave it alone. It is at a reasonable height so I don't want to change it.

    I just also put in a real Russian sight so maybe it sits a bit low - it shouldn't.

    Put the GKR-10MS rail from RSR. While this could easily be the culprit, I've checked for interference from the handguard, but cannot find any. Thoughts?

    (Is there a LOWER micro?)
    The Ultimak with standard AK iron sights, std AK handguard, provides for a lower 1/4-1/3 cowitness when using an Aimpoint Comp M3/Pro and an Aimpoint low mount. It is solely meant to be a back up in emergencies, not an absolute co-witness like on an AR.

    I would just run it like it is. You'll be fine without 1/3 or absolute co witness.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4brian View Post
    Put an Ultimak on my SAIGA with a first gen primary arms micro, and even tried my MD 25 on it and can BARELY get cowitness. Hard to pick up and you really cannot see the bottom of the round cutout on the ears. I don't have this problem on a VZ 58 with an NEA rail.

    It is cowtinessed? yes, but so low as to be kind of a joke.

    Causes? My front sight is set nicely and I want to leave it alone. It is at a reasonable height so I don't want to change it.

    I just also put in a real Russian sight so maybe it sits a bit low - it shouldn't.

    Put the GKR-10MS rail from RSR. While this could easily be the culprit, I've checked for interference from the handguard, but cannot find any. Thoughts?

    (Is there a LOWER micro?)
    The Ultimak with standard AK iron sights, std AK handguard, provides for a lower 1/4-1/3 cowitness when using an Aimpoint Comp M3/Pro and an Aimpoint low mount. It is solely meant to be a back up in emergencies, not an absolute co-witness like on an AR.

    I would just run it like it is. You'll be fine without 1/3 or absolute co witness.

  3. #13
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    Thanks. Whatever I do I’d run a detachable mount if in a defensive use. But I’ll try it on other AKs to see how it might vary gun to gun.

    On this SAIGA it’s a lower 10%. Not very useful.

    It is ALSO about the same for an SA85M.

    But on a Mak 90, there is NO cowitness - that is an easy reason - the MAK 90 has a thicker barrel and mounts a tad higher and eliminates cowitness.

    I may just write Ultimak and ask them if their dimensions are DIFFERENT for the Mak 90 model. If it IS, I'd rather run them than the 'hole less' model.

    The 'regular' model would work mush better if the barrel lugs on the bottom were 1mm smaller in the vertical direction - and this might be easy to attain with some 400 grit paper on the barrel. But here is the rub - how much can you change this dimension and NOT screw up gas tube alignment/clearance? Interesting problem.

    Really - I think a tad lower and the mount is great with a micro and irons. I think there is a big advantage to have the option for cowitness. Not a MUST have, but better.

    But the ultimak remains such a rock solid mount, running it is attractive.
    Last edited by m4brian; 01-09-22 at 15:57.

  4. #14
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    Aimpoint Micros sit lower on the Ulimak than PA sights and 1/3 co-witness perfect for me on both my SAR-1 and SLR-107F behind an SF M300 Scout w/ a Gear Sector mount.
    Gettin' down innagrass.
    Let's Go Brandon!

  5. #15
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    Got a Gen 1 AP onboard AR with riser. Perhaps the vortex crossfire Gen 2 is low enough. I had no idea that the Ultimak had to use specific micros to cowitness - adn that maybe ONLY the AP is a solid solution.

    It’s an experiment at this point. I would like to run on nonrailed AKs

    There seems to be limited information on micros and AK cowitness. Wonder if RSR or MI micro side mounts are any lower?

    A little experiment shows the PA MD 25 to be pretty low in an ARMS mount - this may be a way to AT least reference the sight - cowitness is so low.
    Last edited by m4brian; 01-11-22 at 08:09.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4brian View Post
    Got a Gen 1 AP onboard AR with riser. Perhaps the vortex crossfire Gen 2 is low enough. I had no idea that the Ultimak had to use specific micros to cowitness - adn that maybe ONLY the AP is a solid solution.

    It’s an experiment at this point. I would like to run on nonrailed AKs

    There seems to be limited information on micros and AK cowitness. Wonder if RSR or MI micro side mounts are any lower?

    A little experiment shows the PA MD 25 to be pretty low in an ARMS mount - this may be a way to AT least reference the sight - cowitness is so low.
    Problem solved for the PA AMD MD 20 with push buttons - it gives a full lower third Cowtiness - no problem. The MD 25 does OK if your FS post is high enough.

  7. #17
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    Aimpoint micros will always sit lower.

    For my AMD65 SBR and AK63 SA85m on T1 and compm2 they sit at exactly 1/3rd.

    I've been down this road a hundred times trying to find an equal to the aimpoints and I have always failed.


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    I believe in peace, love and extremely violent weapons systems... just in case that whole peace-and-love thing doesn't work out.

  8. #18
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    Nice pair of AMDs.
    Go Ukraine! Piss on the Russian dead.

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