.380 ACP isn’t so bad after all

[yoni]

This is a game changer in .380. Great penetration and leaves a 2 inch wound channel.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/380-ac...-defender.html

https://youtu.be/-PDQcE-1T40

As most people here know, I believe the Leighi rounds are a game changer. But I believe velocity in these rounds is king. That is why I am putting a 6" barrel in my glock 34. I am also putting together a Glock 32 with a KKM barrel and comp, plus Glock 35 converted to 357 sig. I believe the Glock 35 will break 2200 fps, while it's 9mm clone will hit 2000fps.

But even with Leighi rouns from Underwood, the 380 does not interest me.

[KUSA]

Not bad figures for a 380. I ordered some. When they come in, I’ll chronograph them out of an LCP to see if the figures are close.

[WillBrink]

This is a game changer in .380. Great penetration and leaves a 2 inch wound channel.

https://www.underwoodammo.com/380-ac...-defender.html

https://youtu.be/-PDQcE-1T40

I don't know about game changer, but they appear to at least make the .380 a more viable SD rnd and the best balance between FMJ and JHP in that caliber. Been interested in them in 9mm for a while. Would like to see some formal 3d party testing first.

[Caduceus]

Where's the 30 Super?

Yoni, you also mentioned an experience with .45 not working well. Given the choice, do you see any real differences between 45 and 380? Or is it truly just about the number of holes you poke in someone?

Having worked in Detroit for 2 years, most of what I remember seeing in the ER was birdshot... then again, they don't bring corpses to the ER.

[yoni]

The 45acp let me down, because it just didn't achieve the results I needed and by the time i figured out I needed to transition to head shots I was out of ammo, It is hard to think while your trying to keep a hatchet out of your skull.

I will not compare .45acp and 380, because I would carry a hi cap 45 if 9mm hi cap wasn't available. 9mm carried more BB's and most people can shoot it faster and more accurately than 45.

I have been places where I was without a firearm and have said I would have loved to have a RG 22 cal revolver over nothing, so you can throw in 380 to that mix.

Seeing the high rate of failure of 380 during that 18 months really soured me

[WillBrink]

The 45acp let me down, because it just didn't achieve the results I needed and by the time i figured out I needed to transition to head shots I was out of ammo, It is hard to think while your trying to keep a hatchet out of your skull.

I will not compare .45acp and 380, because I would carry a hi cap 45 if 9mm hi cap wasn't available. 9mm carried more BB's and most people can shoot it faster and more accurately than 45.

I have been places where I was without a firearm and have said I would have loved to have a RG 22 cal revolver over nothing, so you can throw in 380 to that mix.

Seeing the high rate of failure of 380 during that 18 months really soured me

Would it also be correct to say that "Seeing the high rate of failure of typical pistol loads during that 18 months really soured me" ?

That is, that all standard pistol loads in typical duty loads are poor man stoppers in general. So, if we know all typical duty loads are already poor man stoppers, why on earth would you make your chances of success even lower for the convenience of a slightly smaller pistol with .380?

If that's all you can CCW, then it is what it is and you make the best of it, but that's not what we are really talking about here for most. Fact is, if you can conceal a .380 you can conceal a slightly larger 9mm, and we all know it.

Maybe the Underwood stuff changes the equation slightly, and perhaps .380 is a good choice for a BUG (but some PDs ban them as such due to how poorly they perform...), but it's just asking for being behind the survival curve when you don't need to be.

My own story is way less dramatic than yours: first pistol I ever got was a S&W .380. It was cheap and I figured good enough. Buddy of mine, a LEO in a gang unit in major city PD, gets into OIS, and puts 5 rnds of .40 into a guy, who simply dropped his own gun and ran off. Guy was later found in an ER and lived.

My buddy said he'd thought he'd missed due to what was a no visual indicators he'd shot the guy at all. No jerking around like the movies, no blood, nadda. That was his first of several and it freaked him out. I also came to learn that's surprisingly common among LEOs who have had such experiences. That was the first and last .380 I ever owned. We have no lack of confirmed stories of people absorbing double digits of 9mm, .40. .45, 45, and continuing to fight and not until someone with a long gun shows up and puts the goblin down, do they stop fighting.

And people wanna carry a .380 with a limited capacity to boot? Good luck wit that...

[Caduceus]

The 45acp let me down, because it just didn't achieve the results I needed and by the time i figured out I needed to transition to head shots I was out of ammo, It is hard to think while your trying to keep a hatchet out of your skull.

I will not compare .45acp and 380, because I would carry a hi cap 45 if 9mm hi cap wasn't available. 9mm carried more BB's and most people can shoot it faster and more accurately than 45.

I have been places where I was without a firearm and have said I would have loved to have a RG 22 cal revolver over nothing, so you can throw in 380 to that mix.

Seeing the high rate of failure of 380 during that 18 months really soured me

Thanks for answering. I'm not usually one to ask for "war stories," but since you'd brought it up in the past I felt it fair game.

[HKGuns]

Would it also be correct to say that "Seeing the high rate of failure of typical pistol loads during that 18 months really soured me"

That is, that all standard pistol loads in typical duty loads are poor man stoppers in general. So, if we know all typical duty loads are already poor man stoppers, why on earth would you make your chances of success even lower for the convenience of a slightly smaller pistol with .380?

If that's all you can CCW, then it is what it is and you make the best of it, but that's not what we are really talking about here for most. Fact is, if you can conceal a .380 you can conceal a slightly larger 9mm, and we all know it.

Maybe the Underwood stuff changes the equation slightly, and perhaps .380 is a good choice for a BUG (but some PDs ban them as such due to how poorly they perform...), but it's just asking for being behind the survival curve when you don't need to be.

My own story is way less dramatic than yours: first pistol I ever got was a S&W .380. It was cheap and I figured good enough. Buddy of mine, a LEO in a gang unit in major city PD, gets into OIS, and puts 5 rnds of .40 into a guy, who simply dropped his own gun and ran off. Guy was later found in an ER and lived.

My buddy said he'd thought he'd missed due to what was a no visual indicators he'd shot the guy at all. No jerking around like the movies, no blood, nadda. That was his first of several and it freaked him out. I also came to learn that's surprisingly common among LEOs who have had such experiences. That was the first and last .380 I ever owned. We have no lack of confirmed stories of people absorbing double digits of 9mm, .40. .45, 45, and continuing to fight and not until someone with a long gun shows up and puts the goblin down, do they stop fighting.

And people wanna carry a .380 with a limited capacity to boot? Good luck wit that...

I gotta say that I’m pretty confident if I was shot with only a lowly .22, I’d be on the ground howling and screeching like a pussy almost immediately!

[KUSA]

I gotta say that I’m pretty confident if I was shot with only a lowly .22, I’d be on the ground howling and screeching like a pussy almost immediately!

Lol!!

[WillBrink]

I gotta say that I’m pretty confident if I was shot with only a lowly .22, I’d be on the ground howling and screeching like a pussy almost immediately!

I suspect I'd do the same, but some goblins simply don't and many unaware they have even been shot. As always, I recommend anyone who has not read the seminal doc:

"People largely fall down when shot, and the apparent predisposition to do so exists with equal force among the good guys
as among the bad. The causative factors are most likely psychological in origin. Thousands of books,
movies and television shows have educated the general population that when shot, one is supposed to
fall down." - Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness
Special Agent UREY W. PATRICK

http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf